225 replies to this topic

[Flex]

The metabolite of Trazodone acts like Extasy but along with a activation of 5-ht2c.

So 5-ht2c could increase Your anxiety and the releaser function any possible mania.

[forexworld12]

The metabolite of Trazodone acts like Extasy but along with a activation of 5-ht2c.

So 5-ht2c could increase Your anxiety and the releaser function any possible mania.

I can live with anxiety no big deal but i cannot live with this depression .. 

 

but wait what u r sayin is dat a  good thing or a bad thing(5ht2c activation for depression) ?

Edited by forexworld12, 20 September 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Flex]

From my experience: 5-ht2c rather increases anxiety, but according to ncbi it could also increase depression.

Watch out whether this or anything what You´ve ordered may increase derealistion.

Edited by Flex, 20 September 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Michael Rian]

Hey Sorry guys, 

 

I havent started the new medications yet,

 

I ordered some chinese food on Thursday night, then I got food poisoning, and have spent the last day recovering.  UGH... finally feeling a bit better from the food. 

 

I plan to start my medication tomorrow morning at 8:30AM

 

I will update tomorrow,  Have a good weekend everyone.

[Flex]

Thx, You too

 

I really dont want to be a scaremonger or something like that,

but some people have reported a decline in mood and cognition on Vyvanse/Dex.

 

Therefore my suggestion to monitor Your self in the next months and to keep this in mind.

 

[medievil]

Thats solid advice, its allways best to monitor yourself to know exactly whats going on.

[Michael Rian]

Day 1 - Vyvanse 20mg dosed at 9AM:

 

I was a bit nervous this morning,  Naturally in my case because the idea of taking new medications do that to me.

 

I ate an egg sandwich and a Green Smoothie made of kale, spinach, orange and banana.  Washed it down with a large glass of Water.

 

I took my 20mg Vyvanse about 30 minutes after eating. 

 

No negative effects, other than maybe a slight feeling of being colder, but that only lasted about 15 minutes and wasnt that negative at all. Probably due to my nervousness of taking the medication.

 

So far my Day has been really good, I got a lot of stuff done on my Computer, went out for a bike ride, and purchased a few things from the Store.  I have felt less stress all day and a very subtle calmness. 

 

Other than stated above, I havent noticed much from Vyvanse 20mg, Understandably since this dose is the lowest starting dose available.  I do have a good feeling about this since I have felt less stress and a feeling of subtle calm.  Also, It has been easier to talk and communicate today, No frustration or irritability like I have had usually.  

 

I am not taking much away from my first day on Vyvanse, but I am sure glad it didnt cause any anxiety or "High",  very very subtle. 

 

My Psychiatrists prescription dosage is as follows:

 

20mg for the first 4 days, then 40mg for the next 5 days, then 50mg for the next 7 days, and then finally 60mg for the rest of the trial.  This could change at any time according to how I feel on each individual dosage, who knows, we will see. 

 

I hope this update has been of interest, I apologize for not having any big breakthrough news, or at least, any exciting weird side effects haha.

 

I will try to update soon,  Thanks again for all the help and information provided in this thread!  Take care guys

Edited by Michael Rian, 22 September 2014 - 01:45 AM.

[Flex]

No, its interessting

Some Med´s need just time to build up and work.

Edited by Flex, 22 September 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Flex]

Well, it was progressive. From 2011 (when I was 15) to now. I dont know if it is still progressing, hard to say at this point. Ethylphenidate and amisulpiride in low doses was good for me. But I need something better. Still waiting for sarcosine ;/

And of course libido is very low.

 

What if Your symptoms are caused by Disorganized schizophrenia / hebephrenic schizophrenia

http://en.wikipedia....d_schizophrenia

 

This could be a cause, but I dont know about the reliability of the study:

CNR1, central cannabinoid receptor gene, associated with susceptibility to hebephrenic schizophrenia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12082570

 

You could get Rimonabant from e.g. team tlr or their cb1 antagonist.

http://teamtlr.com/s...57-cban-ox.html

 

I´ve got somehow that feeling that they use actually the voacanga for their "house blend"

because there arent many natural CB1 antagonists

 

Or the dried plant: Voacanga ( better the bark than the seeds)

Discovery of indole alkaloids with cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonistic activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21376588

 

From e.g.

https://maya-ethnobotanicals.com/

 

Better avoid

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com

Heard stories of scamming

 

But the Rimonabant stays for 8 days (or so) at the synapse, whereas Voacanga and/or cban-ox stays ~ 8 Hours

So if Rimonrabant is wrong, it could turn horrible  i.e. days of Depressions + perhaps (?) Glutamergic toxicity

Edited by Flex, 22 September 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Well, thanks. But I discovered this type of schizophrenia 2 years ago. In Poland it's called schizophrenia simplex. I have paranoid schizophrenic in my close family so it's very possible that I have it too (in negative symptoms form only). One guy from our polish forum killed himself after 7 years, so... yeah, not optimistic at all.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for sarcosine. Next will be NSI-189 if sarcosine will fail. 

[pheanix997]

Day 1 - Vyvanse 20mg dosed at 9AM:

 

I was a bit nervous this morning,  Naturally in my case because the idea of taking new medications do that to me.

 

I ate an egg sandwich and a Green Smoothie made of kale, spinach, orange and banana.  Washed it down with a large glass of Water.

 

I took my 20mg Vyvanse about 30 minutes after eating. 

 

No negative effects, other than maybe a slight feeling of being colder, but that only lasted about 15 minutes and wasnt that negative at all. Probably due to my nervousness of taking the medication.

 

So far my Day has been really good, I got a lot of stuff done on my Computer, went out for a bike ride, and purchased a few things from the Store.  I have felt less stress all day and a very subtle calmness. 

 

Other than stated above, I havent noticed much from Vyvanse 20mg, Understandably since this dose is the lowest starting dose available.  I do have a good feeling about this since I have felt less stress and a feeling of subtle calm.  Also, It has been easier to talk and communicate today, No frustration or irritability like I have had usually.  

 

I am not taking much away from my first day on Vyvanse, but I am sure glad it didnt cause any anxiety or "High",  very very subtle. 

 

My Psychiatrists prescription dosage is as follows:

 

20mg for the first 4 days, then 40mg for the next 5 days, then 50mg for the next 7 days, and then finally 60mg for the rest of the trial.  This could change at any time according to how I feel on each individual dosage, who knows, we will see. 

 

I hope this update has been of interest, I apologize for not having any big breakthrough news, or at least, any exciting weird side effects haha.

 

I will try to update soon,  Thanks again for all the help and information provided in this thread!  Take care guys

Any updates, Michael!? 

[Michael Rian]

Any updates, Michael!? 

 

Good afternoon,

 

Not much to report back for today, being my 2nd day on Vyvanse.  Today is going pretty much the same as Day 1.  Less stress, a bit more energy, easier to communicate with people, easier to find the correct words, but everything is a very, very subtle experience.

 

Until I up my dosage in a few days, I expect the same experience as Day 1 and Day 2. 

 

Not much of an update, other than I am not experiencing any negatives. Other than feeling a tad warmer temperature, but its not too noticeable.

 

I hope I get some stronger results on Thursday when my dose goes up to 40mg per day.  Thanks

[pheanix997]

 

Any updates, Michael!? 

 

Good afternoon,

 

Not much to report back for today, being my 2nd day on Vyvanse.  Today is going pretty much the same as Day 1.  Less stress, a bit more energy, easier to communicate with people, easier to find the correct words, but everything is a very, very subtle experience.

 

Until I up my dosage in a few days, I expect the same experience as Day 1 and Day 2. 

 

Not much of an update, other than I am not experiencing any negatives. Other than feeling a tad warmer temperature, but its not too noticeable.

 

I hope I get some stronger results on Thursday when my dose goes up to 40mg per day.  Thanks

 

Well not experiencing any negative anxiety is good news! Look forward to the updates and hope it works out. 

[Alexander Hardy]

No supplement exists that will cure your mental state, nor will there ever be. You have to change your diet, be extremely strict about it, and stay that way for a long period of time. I was extremely depressed, confused, and anxious for years until I started a paleo diet and increased my intake of fermented foods. Google "fermented foods, microbiota, and mental health: ancient practice meets nutritional psychiatry" and you'll start seeing what I'm talking about. If you're going to start consuming fermented foods, you have to make sure to make homemade kefir. It's extremely easy, and you can consume it even if you're lactose intolerant.

 

[Michael Rian]

 

No supplement exists that will cure your mental state, nor will there ever be. You have to change your diet, be extremely strict about it, and stay that way for a long period of time. I was extremely depressed, confused, and anxious for years until I started a paleo diet and increased my intake of fermented foods. Google "fermented foods, microbiota, and mental health: ancient practice meets nutritional psychiatry" and you'll start seeing what I'm talking about. If you're going to start consuming fermented foods, you have to make sure to make homemade kefir. It's extremely easy, and you can consume it even if you're lactose intolerant.

 

 

 

Thanks for the insight.  I radically changed my Diet over the past 2.5 years, it worked wonders for my health.  Alongside a rigorous cardio routine, I have come along way in my progress.  That being said, there still are some areas of my mental health that need improvement, and there are supplements and medications that help mediate those issues.  While I agree with you that Diet plays a huge role in how one feels, mentally and physically, I also believe that there are more options available which can also be of help.  

 

As per your description, Would not Kefir be a supplement for ones body and mind?  These fermented foods containing microbiota could be classified as a supplement, could they not?  My favourite fermented, good for your gut, food is Kimchi, Yum!

 

I think one should not exclude certain avenues of interest in their search for health, but opt for a combination of practices to aid them.  Saying that there exists no supplement to cure your mental state is a bold and limiting statement, Different substances work in different ways on different people.  If there is Scientific data to back up any supplement, vitamin, pharmaceutical, drug, plant, herb, ect ect ect, than I say do not exclude that option out! 

 

I do not mean for this response to be taken in a negative light, I appreciate your great suggestion!

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

UPDATE on my Vyvanse trial.

 

Day 3 on 20mg.

 

Still feeling the same as the first 2 days, not much to note.

 

Slightly easier to type, communicate verbally, and collect my thoughts today.

 

Having a bit of a paradoxical reaction, I am feeling more worn out and exhausted than usual,  Almost as if I could just lay in bed a fall asleep.  BUT it has only been 1 hour since I took my morning dose so perhaps the drug isnt fully metabolized in my body yet. 

 

I will try to update later on today.

 

Take care everyone.
 

[Dichotohmy]

As it's commonly known, a paradoxical reaction to psychostimulants is as fundamental to ADHD as apple pie and baseball is to America. In my opinion, it sounds like your dosage is too little for you.

 

Dosing is a tough line to walk as you really do want to use the minimum therapeutic dose when it comes to amphetamines. It's also been my experience, and that of lots of others, that these drugs can easilly increase anhedonia in the medium-long term. Hence, why there are scores of threads on these and other forums about the secret to keeping dopamine neurons and the rewards system upregulated and salient - yet no clear cut answers towards doing so.

 

 

[Michael Rian]

As it's commonly known, a paradoxical reaction to psychostimulants is as fundamental to ADHD as apple pie and baseball is to America. In my opinion, it sounds like your dosage is too little for you.

 

Dosing is a tough line to walk as you really do want to use the minimum therapeutic dose when it comes to amphetamines. It's also been my experience, and that of lots of others, that these drugs can easilly increase anhedonia in the medium-long term. Hence, why there are scores of threads on these and other forums about the secret to keeping dopamine neurons and the rewards system upregulated and salient - yet no clear cut answers towards doing so.

 

Ahh very interesting!  Thanks for the insight.  I am now fighting the debate in my head, to stay on the vyvanse trial or stop it and try the Ritalin.  I have such a hard time making decisions and keeping them.  I keep hearing that the methyphenidate hcl will be the safer option out of the two.  I really do not want to be take amphetamines daily.  So the end of day 3 is nearing, I havent felt any results positive enough to make me want to stay on Vyvanse.  I understand I may get better results on a higher dosage.. but again, i really dont want to be taking a higher dosage of amphetamines daily.  So I am going to try and make my choice tonight, either stay on the Vyvanse or end it tomorrow.  So far I have just felt more fatigue and lazyness and it has gotten in the way of my exercise and work habits.  This is just my update, I hope I have not upset anyone with my experiences and thoughts on the matter, I do know medications take time and you need to find proper dosages ect ect, but I have been down the medication road before, I have a strong feeling that this isnt the best option for me right now, perhaps I will have a better reaction to the Methyphenidate.  I will update tomorrow or the next day.  Take care..

[pheanix997]

 

As it's commonly known, a paradoxical reaction to psychostimulants is as fundamental to ADHD as apple pie and baseball is to America. In my opinion, it sounds like your dosage is too little for you.

 

Dosing is a tough line to walk as you really do want to use the minimum therapeutic dose when it comes to amphetamines. It's also been my experience, and that of lots of others, that these drugs can easilly increase anhedonia in the medium-long term. Hence, why there are scores of threads on these and other forums about the secret to keeping dopamine neurons and the rewards system upregulated and salient - yet no clear cut answers towards doing so.

 

Ahh very interesting!  Thanks for the insight.  I am now fighting the debate in my head, to stay on the vyvanse trial or stop it and try the Ritalin.  I have such a hard time making decisions and keeping them.  I keep hearing that the methyphenidate hcl will be the safer option out of the two.  I really do not want to be take amphetamines daily.  So the end of day 3 is nearing, I havent felt any results positive enough to make me want to stay on Vyvanse.  I understand I may get better results on a higher dosage.. but again, i really dont want to be taking a higher dosage of amphetamines daily.  So I am going to try and make my choice tonight, either stay on the Vyvanse or end it tomorrow.  So far I have just felt more fatigue and lazyness and it has gotten in the way of my exercise and work habits.  This is just my update, I hope I have not upset anyone with my experiences and thoughts on the matter, I do know medications take time and you need to find proper dosages ect ect, but I have been down the medication road before, I have a strong feeling that this isnt the best option for me right now, perhaps I will have a better reaction to the Methyphenidate.  I will update tomorrow or the next day.  Take care..

 

Haha come on man, of course you're not upsetting anyone! What's appreciated is your objective opinion on the matter, regardless of what that is. My opinion is that since you've already waited a year to be offered something other than an SSRI, you may as well continue with the medication and even increase the dose. Even if you experience no positive effects, at least you can put it out of your mind that this particular drug doesn't work for you. It would be interesting to see if the Ritalin also fails to yield benefits; it would be hard to say that you have ADD then. Btw, have you considered modafinil? In my own experience taking a full 200 mg makes me a little too hyped up, but if I take half a pill it usually clears the brain fog and energizes me. Also, taking half a pill before sleep makes me feel utterly refreshed and ready to go in the morning. It sure isn't a miracle pill though and has some funny side effects sometimes and isn't something I'd want to ingest daily, but if you could find a pill you respond to, at least you'll have a vague idea of what the imbalance might be. 

Edited by pheanix997, 24 September 2014 - 02:31 AM.

[Sciencyst]

The metabolite of Trazodone acts like Extasy but along with a activation of 5-ht2c.

So 5-ht2c could increase Your anxiety and the releaser function any possible mania.

Wow, I  never realized mCPP was a trrazodone metabolite until just now.. crazy. mCPP is really really really shitty from what I have heard, and can induce long-term anxiety. IIRC I have seen a few studies which used mCPP to induce anxiety in order to study another drug's anxiiolytic potential.

http://en.wikipedia....henylpiperazine
 

Edited by katuskoti, 24 September 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Second day taking sarcosine in 2 doses: morning ~2g and evening ~2g. No effects at this moment. No side effects neither. 

[Michael Rian]

So I stopped the Vyvanse after the 3rd day on it.  It was making me feel tired and lazy, which was effecting my work and my exercise routine.  I have heard that this might be common in people with ADHD, and that a higher dose is needed.  I might try it again soon, but I need to see my Psychiatrist first because since I started and stopped, now I dont have the proper doses to start over the low-to-higher dosing.  Annnnnnyways, I still have some Ritalin that my family Doctor prescribed, which I may try tomorrow.  Other than that, I do not have any updates, I still feel the same, but now I feel stupid for stopping the treatment.  I will update if the Ritalin has a positive effect or if I start the Vyvanse again after I see my Psych in a week.  Best of luck with everyone

[Boopy!]

yes my friend who is similar to me in our reactions was put on adderall and all she did was sleep.   It did this to me too.   She was not willing to go up in dosage and she ended up selling her whole bottle to a stripper at work for a huge sum --  apparently one person's meth is another's  sleeping med.  

[medievil]

No supplement exists that will cure your mental state, nor will there ever be. You have to change your diet, be extremely strict about it, and stay that way for a long period of time. I was extremely depressed, confused, and anxious for years until I started a paleo diet and increased my intake of fermented foods. Google "fermented foods, microbiota, and mental health: ancient practice meets nutritional psychiatry" and you'll start seeing what I'm talking about. If you're going to start consuming fermented foods, you have to make sure to make homemade kefir. It's extremely easy, and you can consume it even if you're lactose intolerant.

Many sups and meds are extremely effective for mental issues, diet is just a PART of the puzzle

As it's commonly known, a paradoxical reaction to psychostimulants is as fundamental to ADHD as apple pie and baseball is to America. In my opinion, it sounds like your dosage is too little for you.

Dosing is a tough line to walk as you really do want to use the minimum therapeutic dose when it comes to amphetamines. It's also been my experience, and that of lots of others, that these drugs can easilly increase anhedonia in the medium-long term. Hence, why there are scores of threads on these and other forums about the secret to keeping dopamine neurons and the rewards system upregulated and salient - yet no clear cut answers towards doing so.

Ahh very interesting! Thanks for the insight. I am now fighting the debate in my head, to stay on the vyvanse trial or stop it and try the Ritalin. I have such a hard time making decisions and keeping them. I keep hearing that the methyphenidate hcl will be the safer option out of the two. I really do not want to be take amphetamines daily. So the end of day 3 is nearing, I havent felt any results positive enough to make me want to stay on Vyvanse. I understand I may get better results on a higher dosage.. but again, i really dont want to be taking a higher dosage of amphetamines daily. So I am going to try and make my choice tonight, either stay on the Vyvanse or end it tomorrow. So far I have just felt more fatigue and lazyness and it has gotten in the way of my exercise and work habits. This is just my update, I hope I have not upset anyone with my experiences and thoughts on the matter, I do know medications take time and you need to find proper dosages ect ect, but I have been down the medication road before, I have a strong feeling that this isnt the best option for me right now, perhaps I will have a better reaction to the Methyphenidate. I will update tomorrow or the next day. Take care..

try to keep on increasing the dose untill the max dose my friend, you may be suprised.

As it's commonly known, a paradoxical reaction to psychostimulants is as fundamental to ADHD as apple pie and baseball is to America. In my opinion, it sounds like your dosage is too little for you.

Dosing is a tough line to walk as you really do want to use the minimum therapeutic dose when it comes to amphetamines. It's also been my experience, and that of lots of others, that these drugs can easilly increase anhedonia in the medium-long term. Hence, why there are scores of threads on these and other forums about the secret to keeping dopamine neurons and the rewards system upregulated and salient - yet no clear cut answers towards doing so.

Memantine effectively keeps receptors upregulated long term

[Max Headroom Incident]

I'm dealing with the after-effects of benzo withdrawal (been clean a year as of yesterday!) and have major anhedonia.  I've had mild depression/anxiety all my life but benzo withdrawal magnified it by 1000x.  Here's what gets me going every day:

 

2-FA (20-30 mg)

Tianeptine (30-40 mg per day in divided doses)

 

Sometimes I substitute low doses of kratom, ultram or codeine for the tianeptine just to ensure it maintains its effectiveness.  This combo motivates me to exercise, which improves my mood further.  To sleep, I use valerian, melatonin or kava.  I'd ultimately like to get a scrip for dexedrine or Adderall and might consider going back on Prozac. 

 

So basically I'm constantly rotating different drugs to keep things "fresh".  None of them is a cure-all.  That seems to work better than relying on any one thing for too long.  Tolerance = a bitch. 

Edited by Max Headroom Incident, 29 September 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Michael Rian]

I'm dealing with the after-effects of benzo withdrawal (been clean a year as of yesterday!) and have major anhedonia.  I've had mild depression/anxiety all my life but benzo withdrawal magnified it by 1000x.  Here's what gets me going every day:

 

2-FA (20-30 mg)

Tianeptine (30-40 mg per day in divided doses)

 

Sometimes I substitute low doses of kratom, ultram or codeine for the tianeptine just to ensure it maintains its effectiveness.  This combo motivates me to exercise, which improves my mood further.  To sleep, I use valerian, melatonin or kava.  I'd ultimately like to get a scrip for dexedrine or Adderall and might consider going back on Prozac. 

 

So basically I'm constantly rotating different drugs to keep things "fresh".  None of them is a cure-all.  That seems to work better than relying on any one thing for too long.  Tolerance = a bitch. 

 

Hey there,  Thank you very very for sharing this information!  I was also on Benzos while I was on my SSRI treatment years ago.  I kind of messed up my most recent trial of Vyvanse, so I am going to restart it once I see my Psychiatrist again on Oct. 6th.  I am been playing with the idea of going on an antidepressant alongside a stimulant, I will be discussing this with my Doc. 

 

I have been using Glycine very successfully for Sleep these days.  I still want to try melatonin, so cycling it would be a good idea.  Thanks again for your insight! 

[Michael Rian]

Could anyone give me some suggestions of Antidepressants, which I can discuss with my Doctor, that would potentially help with Depression, and therefor help with memory and cognition?  I dont really need anything for anxiety at all.  

 

I was thinking of moclobemide maybe?  It seems worth a shot. 

[Flex]

Buspirone would be interresting albeit weak afaik.

moclobemide is an irreversible mao-a inhibitor so it could be problematic to combine with something that increases Norepinephrine.

Nevertheless mention it.

[Michael Rian]

Buspirone would be interresting albeit weak afaik.

moclobemide is an irreversible mao-a inhibitor so it could be problematic to combine with something that increases Norepinephrine.

Nevertheless mention it.

 

I apologize for my ignorance but, what is a "afaik"?   edit: lol, I googled it, nevermind as far as I know :P

 

And also, I was under the impression that Moclobemide was a reversible Maoi.  Lol, but in any case, my knowledge about these drugs is very limited and I am still learning the basics. 

 

I have read about Buspirone and Ritalin being combined successfully.  Thanks for refreshing the idea for me, I will definitely bring it up at my Doctors meeting on Monday.  How are things going for you these days? 

Edited by Michael Rian, 02 October 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[Flex]

Afaik is just to relativize the strenght. For the one it could be weak for the other perhaps not.

 

Thank You for asking.

Better, it seems that Salvia Miltiorrhiza has an enduring effect. Up till now I´ve had to take allways 4mg Cyproheptadine a day.

But from my experinces, I cant say anything for sure after a few days.

http://www.longecity...ff/#entry690227

[Max Headroom Incident]

No prob!  Stim + antidepressant combos work well for me, though I can see how that'd be a bit anxiety-inducing in some people.  The stim offsets the dull, flat affect caused by SSRIs while the antidepressant smooths out any moodiness caused by the stim. 

 

Hope you find some relief!