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Mushroom Supplement Game Changer

mushroom supplements reishi cordyceps lions mane beta-glucan

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#1 Aka Poe

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 09:39 PM


My post is a bit long winded but but but....... ;)

 

A comparison by Jeff Chilton  (Nammex) of the active immune system, cancer fighting etc. components of whole mushrooms vs mycelium shows that whole mushrooms are considerably richer in health benefits by weight than mycelium based products. A varietyof beta-glucans are found in many plants, mushrooms  including Reishi as well as health benefitting  beta-glucans in Larch trees for example, sold as "Larix" supplements. However, they are not all the same, nor is their immune system value.

 

I have long utilized Reishi, Lion's Mane, Maitake, Turkey Tale, Shiitake, Cordyceps, Agaricus blazei and others for immune system boosting, sometimes on a daily basis. If I feel a hint that a cold might be coming on, I double up on the dose. I rarely get colds and haven't had the flu in years, I know that is not proof, just saying is all. I encourage my family to take such products for illness and also before getting on a plane to avoid catching anything. We believe it helps.

 

I am a mushroom collector hobbiest, not  in any related business. 

 

On a side note, I have collected all of the above mushrooms except Cordyceps and Agaricus blazei in wild parts of Asia and North America and have also traded these mushrooms with other pickers who swap  them by mail from many places. I am not affiliated with Chilton's firm nor have I met him, but some of my friends know him and say he is honest and knows his shit. I have met Stamets  half a dozen times. A friend, Cliff Bradley, a molecular biologist who specializes in fungi since 1980 discovered that certain mycelium, namely Pleurotus ostreatus in a short time breaks down spilt oil into harmless, non toxic elements. They are in the early stages of possibly utilizing such myeclium on the devasting, dreadful, massive Texaco oil spill in the Ecuadorian Amazon. Furthermore, Cliff's  friend, Paul Stamets brought that landmark discovery to fame on TED and in other talks and in his book "Mycelium Running."

 

Okay, back to mushroom supplements, most companies' extracts of these mushrooms are made from the underground web of the mushroom, rather than the above ground "flower" carpophore. The reason is that growing whole mushrooms is much more difficult and more expensive in many cases. Studies, journal articles on the health benefits of mushrooms are largely undertaken using whole mushrooms and not from mycelium for the most part. Therefore we must question whether the health benefits of musrhooms also occur in myelium based products and that is exactly what Chilton's long awaited study does.

 

 

Redefining Medicinal Mushrooms

A new scientific screening program for active compounds

Executive Summary

There is significant concern within the regulatory community regarding health claims made about nutritional supplements as well as about the identity and purity of the natural products themselves. Medicinal mushrooms are a category that has experienced high growth but few actual quality control standards. The following White Paper provides an analytical program that enables manufacturers to realize a higher level of product integrity and efficacy.

  • The proper identification and delineation of “plant part” is clarified. A basidiomycete organism has 3 main parts: a mycelium, mushroom and spore.
  • Key active compounds are identified as beta-D-glucans, triterpenoids and ergosterol. Starch is utilized as an indicator of adulteration. Analytical methods which can quantify the key active compounds are identified and used to test approximately 100 mushroom and mycelium samples.
  • Results of the analyses demonstrate that mushrooms are high in beta-D-glucans and very low in starch. Mycelium produced on cereal grains is low in beta-D-glucans and high in starch. Ergosterol analysis shows the actual amount of fungal material in the products.
  • Mushrooms grown on natural substrates have the precursors to produce important secondary metabolites such as triterpenoids whereas mycelium produced on cereal grains lack these precursors.

 

Most mushroom extract companies erroneously detail polysacharide content of their products as a measure  of quality and value, but the problem there is that their products if mycelium based,  are grown on rice hulls and other grains with high starch content and starch itself is high in polysacharides, the starch remains in the final product in many cases, so the measure is irrelevent since what you what you want to know is the beta-D-glucan content. From Nammex:  "Polysaccharide tests are not valid since they also measure alpha-glucans such as starch."

 

The study from Jeff Chilton compared the target beta-glucan content of mushrooms vs myeclium and found that many mycelium extracts contain paltry amounts of the target beta-glucans. He also lists medicnally actie triterpenoid and also ergosterol content. I know little about these compounds. Next up I would love to hear what dosage is necessary for health benefits per illness, but as with many herbs, ther are a darth of studies specifying that.

 

 

Reishi mushroom compared to reishi mycelium products grown on grainBeta-glucansStarch0255075100MushroomMushroomMushroomMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumMyceliumRiceOatsSorghumPercentages
  Beta-glucans Starch Mushroom 28.1 0.1 Mushroom 26.8 0.6 Mushroom 25.4 0.5 Mycelium 6 29.6 Mycelium 10 31.5 Mycelium 4.5 48.9 Mycelium 9.5 20.4 Mycelium 12.9 31.5 Mycelium 1 38.9 Mycelium 1.1 51.4 Mycelium 7.3 45.2 Rice 1 74 Oats 1 58 Sorghum 2 64

Three different reishi mushroom cultivars have very consistent levels of beta-glucans and less than 1% starch. All commercial mycelium on grain samples had approximately 10% or less of beta-glucans and in some cases only 1%. Starch levels are consistent with the excess grain substrate.

Beta-glucan and starch comparison: fruiting bodies vs mycelium on grain products Basidiomycete Part Beta-glucan Starch       Blended Mycelium Products     5 Mycelium blend 15.26% 27.81% 7 Mycelium blend 3.42% 41.93% 16 mycelium blend 3.2% 66.4%       Whole Chaga Mushroom 6.79% 1.05% Chaga mycelium 4.18% 28.22% Chaga mycelium 7.36% 44.14%       Whole Cordyceps militaris mushroom 34.36% 1.65% Cordyceps mycelium 1.5% 64% Cordyceps mycelium Cs4 7.58% 1.71%       Whole Maitake mushroom 32.4% 1.6% Maitake mycelium 3.46% 39.91% Maitake mycelium 6.38% 44.47%       Whole Oyster mushroom 35% 0.9%       Whole Reishi mushroom 28.1% 0.1% Reishi mycelium 1.06% 51.44% Reishi mycelium 7.3% 45.2%       Whole Shiitake mushroom 28.2% 0.7% Shiitake mycelium 7.20% 38.88%       Whole Trametes mushroom 49.3% 0.1% Trametes mycelium 6.70% 24.55% Trametes mycelium 9.06% 44.78%
 

The above charts demonstrate:

    1. Mushrooms contain consistently high levels of beta-glucans.
    2. Mycelium on grain has consistently low levels of beta-glucans.

Mushrooms contain only minor amounts of starch, on average less than 3% of the dry weight. On average, mycelium products on grain contained 35-40% starch. This reveals that the grain is not converted into fungal tissue.

 

Triterpenoids

A second category of extensively researched active compounds in basidiomycetes are lipids known as triterpenoids.

Triterpenoids occur in significant amounts in a few important medicinal mushrooms, those being reishi, chaga, and Antrodia. Although reishi and chaga have some common classes of triterpenoid compounds, one still must procure a pure standard in order to accurately measure the quantity of these compounds.

Today ganoderic acid standards for reishi are available. Nammex has been utilizing an HPLC method developed from reishi research and has 15 years of testing experience. We have also developed an HPLC method for testing chaga triterpenoids.

From HPLC testing, we can confirm the following:

    1. Reishi mushrooms and mushroom extracts contain measurable amounts of triterpenoids
    2. Reishi mycelium contain no measurable amounts of triterpenoids

This is consistent with our historical record of triterpenoid testing dating back to 1994. This confirms the basic tenet that without precursor compounds, which primarily occur in natural substrates, important secondary metabolites are not produced in meaningful quantities.

 

There is a video of his findings, as well as a nice summary, I recommend you start with that, and thirdly an in depth paper many pages deep. I will link the video and the summary and you can download the entire 28 page study below too.

 

I also posted portions of this information a week ago on "supplements" but believe this topic needs greater exposure in this retailer/products discussion.

 

Overall, if you are fine with paying a lot more and taking much higher amounts of mycelium based extracts the health benefits may in many cases still be there, but it  case by case, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending on the particular mushroom and your target health goal, so to me it seems best to stick with whole mushrooms or whole mushroom extracts in many cases for now.

 

You can find organic mushrooms, with COA, most of which are grown in China. Of course Chinese pollution concerns hit the news often enough, making many wary of herbal and other consummable, edible products from there with good reason, but China is a huge country with polluted areas and as well as other  regions that are farther from such polluted cores. Secondly, since many of these mushrooms are grown indoors air and water quality is checked with air and water filters, and  independent COAs can tell you the degree if present, of heavy metals etc in the final product.

 

At the moment I am testing out three products from Chilton's company Nammex, they specify the beneficial target beta-D-glucan content as well as triterpenoid content, and are extracted from organic grown whole mushrooms.  The extracts are far more strong tasting than the recent mycelium grown products I have bought elsewhere.  The Cordyceps is the best I have had in years and provides and energy boost along with a noticeable increase in physical and sexual prowess. I have been disappointed with  Cordyceps grown from mycelium, they seemed nearly ineefective while whole Cordyceps mushrooms products are a favorite, I can feel a subtle yet noticeably  energy boost  within hours.

 

A few other notes, Chilton's study also shows that whole Oyster mushrooms, Pleurotus ostreatus are extremely high in beta-D-glucan, at 35%.  That mushroom  I have been collecting locally in the last few weeks on fallen Cottonwood tree logs along riversides. I also have been finding  Lion's Mane on a sevearl  occasions lately as we do every year, and others are bringing them in locally to us. My aquaintances are a network of wild mushroom collectors and growers in the US, Canada and elsewhere, some do it as a business, others as a hobby.

 

 A side issue, but for flavor, among the Oyster group I prefer Pleurotus eringi since it is the  most delicious, known in the US as the King Oyster  and have seen it sold at Whole Foods and elsewhere.  Pleurotus ostreatus the more commonly found Oyster  is more commonly available nationwide in grocery stores in the US.  You could well find that immune system boosting  benefits  from expensive mushroom extracts will be equalled in many cases  by simply cooking some up, and they are one of the tastier mushrooms compared at least to the boring white button mushroom that marketers have long pushed in consumer markets. When I can, I prefer good organic food to a pill or powder, especially if it is tasty!

 

Jeff Chilton co-authored with Paul Stamets one of the best books on home medicinal, culinary mushroom growing, "The Mushroom Cultivator." Many say that book is the "bible."

 

I am shocked to see  that the summary on the Nammex webpage shows that whole Trametes versicolor "Turkey Tail" also called Coriolus has an astounding 49% beta-D-glucan content! Extracts of Trametes mycelium are listed at about 7-9%. Paul Stamets states that he cured his mother's cancer with Trametes after exhausting conventional medical interventions.

 

Video of Chilton's interview on whole musrooms vs myeclium:

 

Paper summary on that same topic: http://www.nammex.co...inal-mushrooms/

 

More info:

http://www.nammex.co...room-education/

 

Full 28 page journal article on that study, great diagrams and more: https://my.leadpages...64248772427776/

 

Nammex whole mushroom extracts, I bought the Cordyceps, Reishi and 5 Mushroom product: http://www.realmushrooms.com/

 

Whole organic Reishi mushrooms at a good price, they offer slices or powder, slices guarantee there are no adulturants in a powder. You should be able to grind the slices in a blender afterward. I have bought herbs from this company for many years and all have been high quality: https://www.mountain...-slices/profile

 

 

 

 


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#2 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 01:11 AM

Hey Aka Poe. So glad you found the Nammex white paper and our products. 

 

It is very important to make the distinction between mycelium and mycelium on grain. You can get products from China, like Cordyceps Cs-4, which is 100% pure mycelium made through liquid fermentation. This makes a very different product compared with mycelium on grain which is the production method used for any product made in the USA.

 

This is mycelium on grain: https://www.google.c...s&tbm=isch&sa=X

 

That is what is grown, dried, powdered and then sold as "mushroom". As you can see from the images, the growing medium, typically rice, oats or sorghum, ends up in the final product. From the tests that Nammex did, it shows that the residual grain severely impacts potency.

 

Jeff's recent article in HerbalGram further outlines the confusion between mushroom and mycelium on grain: http://cms.herbalgra...0b4b146dda199a1

 

Paul Stamets states that he cured his mother's cancer with Trametes after exhausting conventional medical interventions.

 

It's important to note that Stamets never says that he cured his mother's cancer.

 

Listen very closely to what Stamets' say. "She was put on Taxol and Herceptin. Wonderful drugs. And then she started taking 8 turkey tail capsules a day..."

 

Making that kind of claim would be a very big no no for herbal products. However, it does draw you to the conclusion that turkey tail cured cancer. Many people forget that she was on Taxol and Herceptin which ARE cancer fighting drugs. So you have to ask the question about what role the turkey tail mycelium on grain actually played in this case?

 

In regards to the Bastyr study (https://www.dropbox....tamets.pdf?dl=0) he references in the video, as far as I'm aware there is no phase 2 study and Bastyr has moved to using PSK (Polysaccharide-Krestin) (http://www.bastyr.edu/news/general-news/2012/11/fda-approves-bastyr-turkey-tail-trial-cancer-patients), the cancer therapy drug from Japan which is developed from turkey tail and has been in use since the late 70s. Why would they make the switch?

 

If there's someone with a clinical background I'd would love to know what they thought of this study? A sample size of 9 seems very small.


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#3 YimYam

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 01:33 PM

Thanks Aka Poe for the informative post. Do you have any recommendations of products which can be found in the UK or Europe? I have the same belief that it's very difficult to find genuine quality mushroom products, so as a beginner to mycology I would appreciate a point in the right direction of how to find affordable potent products.

 

 

many thanks



#4 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 05:04 PM

Do you have any recommendations of products which can be found in the UK or Europe? 

 

We're working on expanding our distribution. Hopefully be early next year we'll be able to offer products in Europe. I would take a look at Oriveda. Though they still use polysaccharides tests which are no good, they do have a high quality product and their informational materials are excellent.


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#5 Aeroeng

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:45 PM

Oriveda ! No please I just used their products .

I bought Reishi , PSP and Chaga from them .

I started with reishi with very high hopes that I am taking the best , I took 4 capsules per day . on the first days I started to feel brain fogged after taking it so I thought it is maybe that it is lowering my blood sugar though I was taking loads of juices and vitamin c with it besides there was no any sense of improvement or energy .

on day 10 I added psp at a dose of 3 caps per day ( the recommended dose ) and then on day 12 I got a severe brain fogging which lasted for days , I felt that my head is blocked , I couldn't concentrate , then the brain fog went into a headache , Finally I could not even continue to finish all these capsules I got from them ! Also I opened one capsule of reishi, the powder itself smelled like pure cigars but after adding it to hot water , its colour was turbid and its odour was like tar !!

 

I was thinking about trying from real mushrooms but I am little worried that you are following their path since you have used the principle of  "perfect supplement facts label" like how Oriveda did , I hope i am wrong about that ?!

I am really fed up of mushroom frauds ... I am looking for real extracts since I am fighting an ailment and wasted loads of money and hopes too ! 


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#6 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:30 PM

Oriveda ! No please I just used their products .

I bought Reishi , PSP and Chaga from them .

I started with reishi with very high hopes that I am taking the best , I took 4 capsules per day . on the first days I started to feel brain fogged after taking it so I thought it is maybe that it is lowering my blood sugar though I was taking loads of juices and vitamin c with it besides there was no any sense of improvement or energy .

on day 10 I added psp at a dose of 3 caps per day ( the recommended dose ) and then on day 12 I got a severe brain fogging which lasted for days , I felt that my head is blocked , I couldn't concentrate , then the brain fog went into a headache , Finally I could not even continue to finish all these capsules I got from them ! Also I opened one capsule of reishi, the powder itself smelled like pure cigars but after adding it to hot water , its colour was turbid and its odour was like tar !!

 

I was thinking about trying from real mushrooms but I am little worried that you are following their path since you have used the principle of  "perfect supplement facts label" like how Oriveda did , I hope i am wrong about that ?!

I am really fed up of mushroom frauds ... I am looking for real extracts since I am fighting an ailment and wasted loads of money and hopes too ! 

 

Active compound measurements are a must for any mushroom supplement brand. Without this there is no way of qualifying products. 

 

The difference between us is that we're organic and we test for beta-glucans and starch separately (polysaccharides include starch). With the amount of starch in so many products, starch tests are a must. 

 

Your description of the reishi could be accurate for good reishi. How did the reishi taste? If it's >6% triterpenes it should be really bitter. 



#7 Aeroeng

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 08:28 PM

Hello

Thanks for your reply . 

Well oriveda test their products for beta glucans but not for starch .

I know reishi is bitter and I am currently using reishi from Europe ( they import it from China ) and I can tell you there is a big difference between real reishi and between oriveda which is supposed to be reishi !

The thing is I got toxic effects from their reishi and when I added psp the toxic effect became severe and I can confirm that it was really toxic effect which I never experienced in my life even with the many medical drugs I took . And when I tried a real reishi I take as much as I want without any side effects plus improvement so I do recommend anyone not to buy from Oriveda , but who wants to try go for it .

I am planning on analyzing oriveda's contents when I am free .


Edited by Aeroeng, 13 November 2015 - 08:30 PM.

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#8 EFTANG

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 08:07 PM

Hello

Thanks for your reply . 

Well oriveda test their products for beta glucans but not for starch .

I know reishi is bitter and I am currently using reishi from Europe ( they import it from China ) and I can tell you there is a big difference between real reishi and between oriveda which is supposed to be reishi !

The thing is I got toxic effects from their reishi and when I added psp the toxic effect became severe and I can confirm that it was really toxic effect which I never experienced in my life even with the many medical drugs I took . And when I tried a real reishi I take as much as I want without any side effects plus improvement so I do recommend anyone not to buy from Oriveda , but who wants to try go for it .

I am planning on analyzing oriveda's contents when I am free .

 

Starch testing is not necessary when the product has already been tested for beta-glucans. Experiencing toxic effects is pretty remarkable, to say the least. My experiences are exactly the opposite! I've had excellent results with oriveda mushroom products. Actually still trying to find the best one for me right now, trying them all. 


Did you contact the company with your complaints ? Maybe they can shed some light on this, I've found them to be very helpful and they know their stuff better than anyone out there IMO.



#9 shp5

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 10:38 AM

no source in the EU? bummer.

 

I've been using Cordyceps sinensis for years to intercept colds, it works wonders and is one of the best, if not the best supplement I use. I buy the dr's best product, they standardize for cordyceptic acid, it seems to be a solid product at a good price. Still, I'd be happy to try something new to compare.

 

@aka poe As is quasi-traditional in Austria, I collect wild mushrooms too. we had two very dry summers, but I'll be on the lookout for some tree-eaters ( Piptoporus betulinus, oyster mushroom, Auricularia auricula-judae) this year.

 

 

edit: mhm this site sells some cordy-m from the UK. CoA included, they claim. http://vitalherbs.co.uk/


Edited by shp5, 08 July 2016 - 10:57 AM.


#10 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:40 PM

I've been using Cordyceps sinensis for years to intercept colds, it works wonders and is one of the best, if not the best supplement I use. I buy the dr's best product, they standardize for cordyceptic acid, it seems to be a solid product at a good price. Still, I'd be happy to try something new to compare.


Doesn't say where their cordyceps is from. It sounds like China (hopefully) but you never know. Cordycepin acid is just mannitol which is common in all medicinal mushrooms.
 

edit: mhm this site sells some cordy-m from the UK. CoA included, they claim. http://vitalherbs.co.uk/


Organic and from China. Looks good.
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#11 zorba990

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 05:09 PM

What about ::  http://www.mushroomh...products_id=102

 

This has been referenced before on longecity:

http://www.longecity...for-your-brain/

 



#12 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 05:25 PM

What about ::  http://www.mushroomh...products_id=102
 
This has been referenced before on longecity:
http://www.longecity...for-your-brain/

Mycelium grown on grain. High in starch, low in active compounds.
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#13 zorba990

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 06:05 PM

 

What about ::  http://www.mushroomh...products_id=102
 
This has been referenced before on longecity:
http://www.longecity...for-your-brain/

Mycelium grown on grain. High in starch, low in active compounds.

 

 

Assuming brown rice doesn't bother you, the bottom line is $ per mg of active compounds and low values for toxins (metals, etc).  Other types of comparison just seem like name-calling to me.


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#14 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:04 PM

Assuming brown rice doesn't bother you, the bottom line is $ per mg of active compounds and low values for toxins (metals, etc).  Other types of comparison just seem like name-calling to me.


Any diligent company will be screening for micros and metals. These are really a moot point yet commonly used to discredit many ingredients from Asia, not just mushrooms. Mycelium grown on sterile grain in a sterile lab will obviously have low toxins.

Price per mg of active compounds is where it gets interesting. For the majority of these companies, it makes their products extremely expensive which is why they don't test for active compounds like beta-glucans or show their starch levels. Just look at this recent peer reviewed study: http://www.ingentaco...4e4b3429bcb4eff

Download the full paper and look at table 2 and 10.

Products #2 and #3 are two very popular "mushroom" products. They are mycelium on grain products with <5% beta-glucans and over 65% alpha-glucan (starch). The high alpha-glucan is due to the residual grain that ends up in the final product. These are products grown on brown rice.

For reference, brown rice is ~70+% starch and ~1% beta-glucan so how much is the mycelium really adding?

Look at Product #8. This is from the self proclaimed top producer of cordyceps. 64% alpha-glucan and 1.5% beta-glucan. It is also mycelium on grain.

When you actually start looking at the amount of actives these products they become very expensive.

Edited by Real Mushrooms, 08 July 2016 - 07:06 PM.

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#15 shp5

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 09:02 AM

 

I've been using Cordyceps sinensis for years to intercept colds, it works wonders and is one of the best, if not the best supplement I use. I buy the dr's best product, they standardize for cordyceptic acid, it seems to be a solid product at a good price. Still, I'd be happy to try something new to compare.


Doesn't say where their cordyceps is from. It sounds like China (hopefully) but you never know. Cordycepin acid is just mannitol which is common in all medicinal mushrooms.
 

edit: mhm this site sells some cordy-m from the UK. CoA included, they claim. http://vitalherbs.co.uk/


Organic and from China. Looks good.

 

 

thanks for your advice. I pulled the trigger and will be reporting back.
 



#16 normalizing

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 01:32 PM

organic and china dont really go well together. you should google how the labeling of organic and monitoring in china works. not really good at all. in china you can claim a product is organic by just using fewer percent less pesticides than the usual procedure applied generally. also, nobody really monitors strictly or cares it seems


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#17 normalizing

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 01:37 PM

 

I've been using Cordyceps sinensis for years to intercept colds, it works wonders and is one of the best, if not the best supplement I use. I buy the dr's best product, they standardize for cordyceptic acid, it seems to be a solid product at a good price. Still, I'd be happy to try something new to compare.


Doesn't say where their cordyceps is from. It sounds like China (hopefully) but you never know. Cordycepin acid is just mannitol which is common in all medicinal mushrooms.
 

edit: mhm this site sells some cordy-m from the UK. CoA included, they claim. http://vitalherbs.co.uk/


Organic and from China. Looks good.

 

 

 

cordycepin is mannitol? realmushrooms if you remember when i posted that abstract on cordycepin, it was specifically isolated from cordyceps militaris purified in high doses and it was claimed to work as well as ketamine for depression, does that happen to just be high dose of mannitol? im just not understanding this....

 



#18 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 05:38 PM

cordycepin is mannitol? realmushrooms if you remember when i posted that abstract on cordycepin, it was specifically isolated from cordyceps militaris purified in high doses and it was claimed to work as well as ketamine for depression, does that happen to just be high dose of mannitol? im just not understanding this....


Oops. Typo on my part or maybe autocorrect. cordycepic/cordyceptic acid is mannitol. from what i remember, originally when they were studying cordyceps sinensis, they found this compound and called it cordycepic acid. years later they found out it was just mannitol yet many cordyceps products still talk about cordycepic acid trying to insinuate it's some kind of special cordyceps compound. mannitol is common in all medicinal mushrooms so using it as a selling point is a moot point.

cordycepin is a completely different compound. it's 3'-deoxyadenosine and is a marker compound for cordyceps militaris. cordyceps sinensis has very little of this compound.
 

organic and china dont really go well together. you should google how the labeling of organic and monitoring in china works. not really good at all. in china you can claim a product is organic by just using fewer percent less pesticides than the usual procedure applied generally. also, nobody really monitors strictly or cares it seems


This comes down to the due diligent of the company buying. You still have to do your due diligence and get independent testing done. You can't rely on the testing of your supplier. Any reputable company will verify a supplier's CoA through their own testing. This applies across the board for every type of ingredient, no matter the country of origin.

As per my post above: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=781794

You can purchase grain based mycelium from the USA, which is full of starch, does not conform with the research, and lacks significant amounts of the active compounds found in the research.

Or

You can purchase a true mushroom product from China, that is actually made from mushrooms, which conforms with the research and contains high levels of the active compounds found in the research. If you do get a product from China it would be better to get an organic one than a non-organic one.

Edited by Real Mushrooms, 09 July 2016 - 05:40 PM.


#19 David Middlemiss

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:13 PM

Thanks Aka Poe for the informative post. Do you have any recommendations of products which can be found in the UK or Europe? I have the same belief that it's very difficult to find genuine quality mushroom products, so as a beginner to mycology I would appreciate a point in the right direction of how to find affordable potent products.


many thanks


If you have any contacts in Thailand, Laos, I buy raw dried reish, and the fruiting bodies of many more, paying around £2.50 per 1/2 kilo and there are lots of other medicinal to choose, there are many good herbalists and herbal suppliers, things like Tong Kat Ali and Panax Ginseng to name a few are pennies too!
I extract the essences myself, although you can't guarantee exact quality from suppliers, they seem to know their stuff out there, the mushrooms and other supplements seem very Good quality, there are a huge variety of other fungi which are said to have wonderful properties and much of the science is based in the ancient cultural medicinal traditions, black fungus and white cauliflower fungus are readily available from most Chinese supermarkets, now also grain grown cordyceps, I pay £2.90 for approx 1/2 kilo, I believe this makes up for lesser strength as I could use the whole bag for a stronger extract/tincture, hope this help

Edited by David Middlemiss, 16 July 2016 - 03:38 PM.

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#20 David Middlemiss

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:30 PM

If you have any contacts in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia etc etc,
I buy raw dried reish, and the fruiting bodies of many more, paying around £2.50 per 1/2 kilo and there are lots of other medicinal to choose, there are many good herbalists and herbal suppliers, I extract the essences myself, although you can't guarantee exact quality, they seem to know their stuff out there, and the mushrooms look and seem very Good quality, not sure entirely on the source or ethical status although there are a huge variety of other fungi which are said to have wonderful properties which I've been touching on,
much of the science is based in the ancient cultural medicinal traditions of each country,
Simple cultivars such as black fungus and white cauliflower fungus are readily available from most Chinese supermarkets, and now also grain grown cordyceps, I pay £2.90 for approx 1/2 kilo, I believe this makes up for lesser strength as I could use the whole bag for a stronger extract/tincture, hope this helps

Edited by David Middlemiss, 16 July 2016 - 03:35 PM.

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#21 David Middlemiss

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:44 PM

I have actually been lucky enough to find a wild Chaga mushroom in the UK, I had tried to dislodge a sample when the complete mass broke away, so have made a double extract which works extremely well, I find it synergies any other supplements I take, almost like a conductor with an orchestra

Attached Files


Edited by David Middlemiss, 16 July 2016 - 03:57 PM.

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#22 shp5

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:32 PM

found half a kilo of reishi the other day. dried it under a fan and pulverized it with a blender, something akin to a coffee mill would probably be more effective. what's the best way to make its compounds bioavailable? tea? prolonged cooking?

 

turkey tails are everywhere too, I'll have to read up on those. (here is a good overview, including some studies and the usage in TCM. http://www.shen-nong...al/yunzhi.html)

 

 

tried out the cordyceps militaris fruiting body extract, 1g. hot flush in the face, slight pressure in the head, warm feet. so lots of vasodilatation. no increase in libido. both are different to the effect of dr. bests cordyceps sinensis. we will see if it kills a cold as nicely.

 

 


Edited by shp5, 19 July 2016 - 10:23 PM.


#23 David Middlemiss

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 10:28 PM

Hi shp5

I'm no expert, my method is as follows

Grinding is the start, I use powdered mushroom ( For Chaga=coffee grind sized powdered mushroom , Reishi=slices or Cordyceps Sinensis from grain=whole fruiting bodies) and vodka, approx 3/4 powdered mushroom then Vodka filled to neck of kilner jar, (prefferably organic, also higher alcohol content is preffered for optimum preservation of compounds)

Do this first to extract the more active subtle compounds as boiling destroys most/all of these (check out chaga mushroom extraction youtube)

I use a kilner jar with a grease proof membrane cut to size and dropped on the neck of the jar before sealing, to stop the rubber or silicone seal imparing quality/contaminating,

Shake vigorously approx 3 times daily for a month I preffer 2months or more but this is I beleive overkill,

I then filter/seperate

Then boil the remainin damp solid, (Use filtered or spring water/non clorinated, non flourinated)

In a pressure cooker is good to maximise your extract/ minimise time cooking/limit loss,

make sure you use a minimum of water or boil in a pan if pressure cooker is not for you,

Non stick preffered as i dont like the extract to be in contact with metal,(just a weird personal choice lol)

Simmer for around 3 hours topping up as needed,(alter as specified for your type of pressure cooker)

Reduce contents allow to cool completely,

Refrigerate if possibel then combine the water and alcohol,

I keep it chilled

 


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#24 David Middlemiss

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:50 PM

Hi shp5

I'm no expert, my method is as follows

Grinding is the start, I use powdered mushroom ( For Chaga=coffee grind sized powdered mushroom , Reishi=slices or Cordyceps Sinensis from grain=whole fruiting bodies) and vodka, approx 3/4 powdered mushroom then Vodka filled to neck of kilner jar, (prefferably organic, also higher alcohol content is preffered for optimum preservation of compounds)

Do this first to extract the more active subtle compounds as boiling destroys most/all of these (check out chaga mushroom extraction youtube)

I use a kilner jar with a grease proof membrane cut to size and dropped on the neck of the jar before sealing, to stop the rubber or silicone seal imparing quality/contaminating,

Shake vigorously approx 3 times daily for a month I preffer 2months or more but this is I beleive overkill,

I then filter/seperate

Then boil the remainin damp solid, (Use filtered or spring water/non clorinated, non flourinated)

In a pressure cooker is good to maximise your extract/ minimise time cooking/limit loss,

make sure you use a minimum of water or boil in a pan if pressure cooker is not for you,

Non stick preffered as i dont like the extract to be in contact with metal,(just a weird personal choice lol)

Simmer for around 3 hours topping up as needed,(alter as specified for your type of pressure cooker)

Reduce contents allow to cool completely,

Refrigerate if possibel then combine the water and alcohol,

I keep it chilled

 

Just a thought, would it be possible to buy Bioethanol direct from a plant, thats safe enough to consume/make extracts with, I know the main issue is the bitterings added to deter its use or accidental consumption, secondly the denaturalisation process or would that affect it?

 


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#25 EFTANG

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:05 PM

Just look at this recent peer reviewed study: http://www.ingentaco...4e4b3429bcb4eff


Download the full paper and look at table 2 and 10.

Products #2 and #3 are two very popular "mushroom" products. They are mycelium on grain products with <5% beta-glucans and over 65% alpha-glucan (starch). The high alpha-glucan is due to the residual grain that ends up in the final product. These are products grown on brown rice.

[...]

Look at Product #8. This is from the self proclaimed top producer of cordyceps. 64% alpha-glucan and 1.5% beta-glucan. It is also mycelium on grain.

When you actually start looking at the amount of actives these products they become very expensive.

 

 

Products #2  and #3 appear to be from Stamets's  Host Defense line of products, and #8 is Aloha Medicinals Cordyceps. All best avoided, that much is obvious.



#26 EFTANG

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:10 PM

If you have any contacts in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia etc etc,
I buy raw dried reish, and the fruiting bodies of many more, paying around £2.50 per 1/2 kilo and there are lots of other medicinal to choose, there are many good herbalists and herbal suppliers, I extract the essences myself, although you can't guarantee exact quality, they seem to know their stuff out there, and the mushrooms look and seem very Good quality, not sure entirely on the source or ethical status although there are a huge variety of other fungi which are said to have wonderful properties which I've been touching on,
much of the science is based in the ancient cultural medicinal traditions of each country,
Simple cultivars such as black fungus and white cauliflower fungus are readily available from most Chinese supermarkets, and now also grain grown cordyceps, I pay £2.90 for approx 1/2 kilo, I believe this makes up for lesser strength as I could use the whole bag for a stronger extract/tincture, hope this helps

 

 

 I agree it is fun to experiment, but if you are after actual therapeutic power don't waste your time. It's not possible to get the therapeutic potency of a professionally produced extract with DIY methods.

 

In the end, you are wasting a lot of time and the money. But if it's just a hobby, keep it up ! Hot water extraction works best in a pressure cooker, normal cooking will actually destroy most of the beta-glucans you're trying to make bioavailable. Just a tip!



#27 normalizing

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 03:54 AM

realmushrooms and vlad, you seem to be specialists on this as i have read through this and few other threads regarding mushrooms, can you tell me what you think of this supplier http://www.mycolivia.com/


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#28 Real Mushrooms

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 06:03 AM

can you tell me what you think of this supplier http://www.mycolivia.com/


Never heard of them and can't really tell much from their site. Are you from Israel? Where did you hear about them?
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#29 normalizing

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 08:28 PM

realmushrooms, from here http://www.nutraingr...lth-supplements reading news as usual


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#30 motorcitykid

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:12 PM

realmushrooms, from here http://www.nutraingr...lth-supplements reading news as usual

 

I find that the five mushroom combo from realmushrooms works as a nootropic for me.
 





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