258 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

realmushrooms let me know when your product has standardized content for hericenone and erinacine in percent until then im not bothering

[Real Mushrooms]

realmushrooms let me know when your product has standardized content for hericenone and erinacine in percent until then im not bothering

 

Will do. No idea on the timeline though. 

[LookNSide]

Hey, guys, I need some help. Be easy on me, haha! I DO have serious problems. I'm 34 and have chronic Lyme disease. I was positive with EBV for 4 years and bed ridden. I have so much brain fog that sometimes I cannot remember how to cook bacon (I had to text my Mom and my girlfriend to find out yesterday morning...), cannot drive at times, place orders to get food etc.
Yes, this is about Lion's Mane, and I will try to get to the point (I apologize). I was very smart. No one would believe if I gave ages and explanations of ventures etc in my life. I will just say this is not normal for me to have such trouble thinking. The reason I explained this is to say "Please understand, I truly need help, and I may not know how to respond to aggressive responses, and please be patient with me.".

I am going to mention the brand name I am using, and I have read all the back and forth over the companies (bickering etc.). I am asking because I'm doing all of this research on my own with all of the brain fog (which is less at night), and I can't research like I could. I'm doing the best I can, but I am here because I need to know if what I'm doing is right (and you can be as detailed as you want/I can hang as long as I am not terribly brain fogged when reading).

I started HD (Host Defense) Lion's Mane, and Reishi. It has only been 2 weeks. I am willing to give it 4 months before a full verdict, and do not expect anything until at least 1 month has passed at 3 grams per day. I am taking 3x (3g) the recommended dosage per day of the HD brand on an empty stomach. With all explanations aside, I need this to work (I need my mind back), but reading so much negativity about HD and Mycelium has me discouraged. If I look at another manufacturer that seems to be glowingly positive, I eventually research deep enough and dig up a dirty secret from them as well. With that said, I have also seen good, extensive explanation in this thread of how the Mycellium also is/could be the most important part.

Anyhow, I'm confused, and just need a bit of help and cparification
I did read everything in this thread and many others. Essentially I am in search of the best of the best Lion's Mane, no matter the cost, and I want to know if what Im taking is effective. Will I get the results I am looking for with Host Defense supplements in a high dose (3-5 grams indefinitely), or am I wasting my time, why, and if so what do I need to research/buy?

Thanks for anyone willing to help. I feel very out of my shell, because I know I type like a vulnerable person, and right now to a degree, I am. Please, do not try to take advantage of me with sales hype. I'm not just experimenting. I'm sick and asking for help, and I do not have the money to be taken advantage of.

Thank You

[EFTANG]

OK,  here's my feedback about the "new and improved" Oriveda Lions mane extract, as promised. It is now a 50/50 mix of fruiting body and "deep layer cultivated mycelium" (meaning not grown on grain). It is hot water extracted.

 

I've been taking it for 4 weeks now. I also gave it to my mother (88 years old and mentally slowly falling to bits, unfortunately) and recommended it to a friend who has been suffering from some hard to battle, mostly not well-defined health problems for 10 years or so.

 

Starting with my friend, he was pretty desperate. He has some sort of chronic systemic health condition, affecting his cognition and digestion, among other things. Tests for Lyme disease came back negative but for bartonella and mycoplasma tests came back positive. All pretty hard-to-battle. He has tried all kinds of herbs and such, but with little success. He was very positive about the Lions Mane.

I quote from his email:

 

"My cognition hugely improved and thinking in general. I would say by 20% at least within few days. I noticed also improvement in digestion and less cravings for sugar. In general I have a feeling that this stuff is really doing sth good for my mind and body. I take maximum dosage 3 tablets x 3 daily. I really don’t like taking pills so about 2 weeks ago I began opening the capsules and sprinkling the powder in drinks such as coffee and tea. I then noticed that I didn’t have to take the medication for my horrible problem with acid reflux. I used to take prescribed pills and eating antacids like candy, often waking up in the middle of the night to down baking soda for immediate relief. The relief has been total ( I haven’t changed my diet) and I haven’t had to take any medication since."

 

My mother takes 6 capsules daily. Physically she is in good shape for an 88-year old, but her memory and cognition are declining. She also has occasional bouts of "word- salad" (those familiar with the TV-series Boston Legal know what I mean: instead of saying what she intends to say (the right words are in her head), she's just uttering a meaningless "salad"/mix of words. In the series it's James Spader who's suffering from this).

She herself is not really aware of any changes but those around her have.

 

She stopped mixing up her social security number with her bank account number, e.g.  No bouts of "word-salad" for the past weeks. She is definitely more focused and can concentrate better, noticeable when you talk with her and she can now read the newspaper without going over the same page several times. So IMO it appears to help her. I will increase her dosage to 9 capsules daily to see if that will accelerate the effects.

 

Myself I can't say I notice any difference. I take 6 capsules daily. That being said, I have no health condition and no cognitive problems I'm aware of. I'm not improving in other words.

 

My conclusion is that the product appears to be effective for specific conditions which is in accordance with the theories and the existing research.

But it will not make you a superhuman. If there is nothing wrong with you you will not get "better". That being said, it still might be worthwhile taking it to prevent or postpone cognitive decline due to aging. 

 

 

[normalizing]

are the nammex, oriveda and realmushrooms extracts all the same?

[EFTANG]

are the nammex, oriveda and realmushrooms extracts all the same?

 

 

Realmushrooms = Nammex = fruiting body extract.

 

Oriveda is something else, it contains 50% mycelium, so it has the whole spectrum of NGF stimulators (most of which can be found in the mycelium according to experts)

[birthdaysuit]

 

realmushrooms let me know when your product has standardized content for hericenone and erinacine in percent until then im not bothering

 

Will do. No idea on the timeline though. 

 

 

Do you post your CoA's yet?
 

[Real Mushrooms]

 

 

Do you post your CoA's yet?

 

Yes contact us through our website.

[birthdaysuit]

 

 

 

Do you post your CoA's yet?

 

Yes contact us through our website.

 

 

I contacted real mushrooms about my Reishi 415 purchase and gave them my Lot#. It has been more than a week and I have yet to hear back.
 

[Real Mushrooms]

I contacted real mushrooms about my Reishi 415 purchase and gave them my Lot#. It has been more than a week and I have yet to hear back.

 

 

Nothing in our inbox right now. I'll PM you the CoA link.

[drstrangeglove]

Host Defense is a solid brand. I take 1g of their Lion's Mane ( 2 caps) 3-4 times a week. I've been doing this for several months. I notice that it improves my memory and my coordination. For me it's one of the more noticeable brain supplements. Along with N-acetyl-cysteine extended release by Jarrow it's my go to for improving my cognition. I recommend taking it in bursts during the times that you need a cognitive boost. 

[BasicBiO]

Mixed with coffee in the morning it is definitely stimulating beyond what coffee does for me. Seems to also heighten the crash of caffeine later in the day. Taken at night with bacopa and Mg oil(topical), I've been getting the best sleep I've had in years. A little groggy in the morning, but the feeling of being really well rested is quite serene.

[LongLife]

Mixed with coffee in the morning it is definitely stimulating beyond what coffee does for me. Seems to also heighten the crash of caffeine later in the day. Taken at night with bacopa and Mg oil(topical), I've been getting the best sleep I've had in years. A little groggy in the morning, but the feeling of being really well rested is quite serene.

BASICBIO:

A minimum 4 hours of Deep Sleep is required between 11pm/midnight to 5 am for the body to do its repairs and maintenance work. Three grams of Glycine at bedtime along with 1mg+ (think about your weight) of Melatonin will induce Deep Sleep. The magnesium is good and if you soak your feet or body with Mag Sulfate, the absorption will be increased until your body has reached it's sweet spot.

 

BTW, Glycine is an amino acid and is required for cellular Glutathione production which is lacking or absent in all degenerative diseases. The other two amino acids are Glutamic Acid and Cysteine. Taking Glutathione by itself is counter productive as it is too large to enter into cells, must be broken down into its primary components, assimilated inside the cell and constructed into Glutathione. I am saying this because if you have any problems with degenerative disease(s) besides aging, then the 3 grams of Glycine might get used making Glutathione instead of inducing Deep Sleep, in which supplementing with all three amino acids would be the ticket with additional Glycine.

 

Inducing Deep Sleep will eventually benefit anyone. Taking the mycelium of Lion's Mane will induce synthesis of NGF within the blood brain barrier, since otherwise the NGF will not pass through on its own. The trick is to obtain a good quality mycelium.

[normalizing]

realmushrooms when can you guys get extract from psylocybin mushrooms? nevermind lions mane, thats child's toy

[Real Mushrooms]

realmushrooms when can you guys get extract from psylocybin mushrooms? nevermind lions mane, thats child's toy

 

lol maybe once it's legal though with some of the positive studies coming out on its use, I wouldn't be surprised if they started turning it into a concentrated drug. 

[gamesguru]

I've been taking 2g of Lions Mane daily for these past few days, and I can't say I noticed anything. Maybe it makes me drowsy, which is actually detrimental, but I haven't noticed any positive effects. Maybe it's an adaptogen? Whatever it is, I'll finish the bottle and find either another source, or just ditch it completely. Bummer.

 

NGF does not apparently birth new neurons, rather it enhances the survival of existing ones (especially young ones). the average person gains 1.75% on their hippocampus per year, a health enthusiast might gain 2.5%. unfortunately you also lose more than you gain, so youre down 30-50% by age 85. that's where lion's mane and similar supplements come in, to help the health enthusiast further "cut his loses", and maybe reduce that to 10%. so with all these efforts, we might hope to see 85 year old scientists with 90% productivity as their grandchildren. BUT THE MAIN POINT, it takes at least 6 months to notice "hey fewer of my hippocampal cells seem to be dying off", and the effects will be cumulative up to a decade. maybe trka downregulation will make it necessary to cycle, but still the effects should be cumulative. especially stacked with other NGF-boosters.

The median turnover rate of neurons within the renewing subpopulation is 1.75% per year during adulthood, corresponding to approximately 700 new neurons per day in each hippocampus or 0.004% of the dentate gyrus neurons per day in the human hippocampus.

 

this figure is taken from a study on LASIK surgery, which induces NGF synthesis on the cornea. you can see the progression of dendrite growth and cell density, it takes 3-6 months. another study, involving diabetic polyneuropathy, found recombinant NGF injections to require 12 months for full effects, with pain at the injection site developing in under a month (probable hypersensitivity, due to localized nerve growth)

[normalizing]

gamesguru you summed it up. the effect is quite slow and costs money, nevermind finding anything that works and know it works too, without losing the time and money for nothing.

 

basically if lions mane doesnt boost NGF as fast as possible with as little price as it could, its kind of a waste.

 

why not boost NGF with something that doesnt really cost money or really time, like excercise or fasting?

Edited by normalizing, 17 June 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

why not boost NGF with something that doesnt really cost money or really time, like excercise or fasting?

Exercise and fasting may in theory boost ngf but I've never gotten the rash (sign of increased ngf) from exercising or fasting, but I have from Lion's Mane.

The problem with Lion's Mane is that it seems to lose efficacy quickly and the experience of rashes fades after a few days, suggesting desensitization or whatever.

[LongLife]

gamesguru you summed it up. the effect is quite slow and costs money, nevermind finding anything that works and know it works too, without losing the time and money for nothing.

 

basically if lions mane doesnt boost NGF as fast as possible with as little price as it could, its kind of a waste.

 

why not boost NGF with something that doesnt really cost money or really time, like excercise or fasting?

NORMALIZING:

I understand your point of view.

 

It looks like the human study on Lion's Mane produced a noticeable result in fairly short order and this was without using the mycelium, so the NGF part was likely not involved in that study. 

 

People who really need NGF (thinking Lion's Mane as the primary supplement) are not likely able to exercise, although they could probably fast. Folks with neurodegenerative disorders for instance.

 

I really do not understand why there is not any company selling a good mycelium concentrate yet...or maybe I am out of date and someone is doing that now?

[lumia]

 

gamesguru you summed it up. the effect is quite slow and costs money, nevermind finding anything that works and know it works too, without losing the time and money for nothing.

 

basically if lions mane doesnt boost NGF as fast as possible with as little price as it could, its kind of a waste.

 

why not boost NGF with something that doesnt really cost money or really time, like excercise or fasting?

I really do not understand why there is not any company selling a good mycelium concentrate yet...or maybe I am out of date and someone is doing that now?

 

 

I think I mentioned why above. The largest consumer of Lion's Mane extract, China, labels it for gastritis, and thus the Chinese Pharmacopoeia standard only standardizes it for polysaccharide content.
 

[playground]

Please focus on this people...

 

There's no evidence that Lion's mane does *anything* for Human cognition via supplements.

The only evidence ... comes from an old people's home in Japan.
...where supplementation with lions mane made the old ladies easier to control and 'apparently' calmer.
Or so the unreplicated, unconfirmed research said.

This 'old people's home' evidence was produced ...way before... the mass of the test tube research.
So.. the question has to be asked.. why was the old people's home research conducted ?
What as the rationale for conducting that research ?
On what basis ? Where was the evidence ?
Why has no one managed to replicate that research ?
Why has that result never been confirmed ?

It's fast looking like it's been a scam from the beginning.
Everyone's on board for the Lion's Mane ride of hope.
But it's only hope.. there's no evidence.
After these years and all this exposure, there really should be evidence now.

Ask yourself, where is the evidence ?
Basically, there is only test tube evidence.
There are no studies showing that dementing patients given daily Lion's mane have their symptoms get better
or the progress of their disease slows down.  (If you want something to slow down or reverse Alzhemier's,
by the way, seek out the research on coconut oil)
Similarly, there are no studies showing that young healthy subjects
taking Lions mane for 6 months or 1 year, improve their SAT scores, or Wechsler scale scores..etc.

After all these years, and all this exposure, if someone had found positive results they'd have
been published by now. The absence of such evidence is a big RED FLAG.

The core belief is suspect at best, and a barefaced scam at worst.
Basically there's no credible evidence that taking the supplements will increase the NGF in your head.
But there's lots of evidence it will reduce the money in your wallet.

 

There are people on this thread who are involved in businesses selling lions mane.

Naturally, they will seek to persuade you that Lions Mane is the real deal.

But they're trying to scam you...

there is no evidence that LM enhances human cognition via supplements.

 

Cue attacks from vendors who dont like me speaking the truth. :-)

 

[gamesguru]

Reduction of depression and anxiety by 4 weeks Hericium erinaceus intake.
Nagano M1, Shimizu K, Kondo R, Hayashi C, Sato D, Kitagawa K, Ohnuki K. (2010)

Hericium erinaceus, a well known edible mushroom, has numerous biological activities. Especially hericenones and erinacines isolated from its fruiting body stimulate nerve growth factor (NGF) synthesis, which expects H. erinaceus to have some effects on brain functions and autonomic nervous system. Herein, we investigated the clinical effects of H. erinaceus on menopause, depression, sleep quality and indefinite complaints, using the Kupperman Menopausal Index (KMI), the Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale (CES-D), the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI), and the Indefinite Complaints Index (ICI). Thirty females were randomly assigned to either the H. erinaceus (HE) group or the placebo group and took HE cookies or placebo cookies for 4 weeks. Each of the CES-D and the ICI score after the HE intake was significantly lower than that before. In two terms of the ICI, "insentive" and "palpitatio", each of the mean score of the HE group was significantly lower than the placebo group. "Concentration", "irritating" and "anxious" tended to be lower than the placebo group. Our results show that HE intake has the possibility to reduce depression and anxiety and these results suggest a different mechanism from NGF-enhancing action of H. erinaceus.

Improving effects of the mushroom Yamabushitake (Hericium erinaceus) on mild cognitive impairment: a double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial.
Mori K1, Inatomi S, Ouchi K, Azumi Y, Tuchida T. (2009)

A double-blind, parallel-group, placebo-controlled trial was performed on 50- to 80-year-old Japanese men and women diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment in order to examine the efficacy of oral administration of Yamabushitake (Hericium erinaceus), an edible mushroom, for improving cognitive impairment, using a cognitive function scale based on the Revised Hasegawa Dementia Scale (HDS-R). After 2 weeks of preliminary examination, 30 subjects were randomized into two 15-person groups, one of which was given Yamabushitake and the other given a placebo. The subjects of the Yamabushitake group took four 250 mg tablets containing 96% of Yamabushitake dry powder three times a day for 16 weeks. After termination of the intake, the subjects were observed for the next 4 weeks. At weeks 8, 12 and 16 of the trial, the Yamabushitake group showed significantly increased scores on the cognitive function scale compared with the placebo group. The Yamabushitake group's scores increased with the duration of intake, but at week 4 after the termination of the 16 weeks intake, the scores decreased significantly. Laboratory tests showed no adverse effect of Yamabushitake. The results obtained in this study suggest that Yamabushitake is effective in improving mild cognitive impairment.

Effects of Hericium erinaceus on amyloid β(25-35) peptide-induced learning and memory deficits in mice
Koichiro Mori, Yutaro Obara, Takahiro Moriya, Satoshi Inatomi, Norimichi Nakahata (2011)

The mushroom Hericium erinaceus has been used as a food and herbal medicine since ancient times in East Asia. It has been reported that H. erinaceus promotes nerve growth factor secretion in vitro and in vivo. Nerve growth factor is involved in maintaining and organizing cholinergic neurons in the central nervous system. These findings suggest that H. erinaceus may be appropriate for the prevention or treatment of dementia. In the present study, we examined the effects of H. erinaceus on amyloid β(25-35) peptide-induced learning and memory deficits in mice. Mice were administered 10 μg of amyloid β(25-35) peptide intracerebroventricularly on days 7 and 14, and fed a diet containing H. erinaceus over a 23-d experimental period. Memory and learning function was examined using behavioral pharmacological methods including the Y-maze test and the novelobject recognition test. The results revealed that H. erinaceus prevented impairments of spatial short-term and visual recognition memory induced by amyloid β(25-35) peptide. This finding indicates that H. erinaceus may be useful in the prevention of cognitive dysfunction.

Neurotrophic properties of the Lion's mane medicinal mushroom, Hericium erinaceus (Higher Basidiomycetes) from Malaysia.
Lai PL1, Naidu M, Sabaratnam V, Wong KH, David RP, Kuppusamy UR, Abdullah N, Malek SN. (2013)

Neurotrophic factors are important in promoting the growth and differentiation of neurons. Nerve growth factor (NGF) is essential for the maintenance of the basal forebrain cholinergic system. Hericenones and erinacines isolated from the medicinal mushroom Hericium erinaceus can induce NGF synthesis in nerve cells. In this study, we evaluated the synergistic interaction between H. erinaceus aqueous extract and exogenous NGF on the neurite outgrowth stimulation of neuroblastoma-glioma cell NG108-15. The neuroprotective effect of the mushroom extract toward oxidative stress was also studied. Aqueous extract of H. erinaceus was shown to be non-cytotoxic to human lung fibroblast MRC-5 and NG108-15 cells. The combination of 10 ng/mL NGF with 1 μg/mL mushroom extract yielded the highest percentage increase of 60.6% neurite outgrowth. The extract contained neuroactive compounds that induced the secretion of extracellular NGF in NG108-15 cells, thereby promoting neurite outgrowth activity. However, the H. erinaceus extract failed to protect NG108-15 cells subjected to oxidative stress when applied in pre-treatment and co-treatment modes. In conclusion, the aqueous extract of H. erinaceus contained neuroactive compounds which induced NGF-synthesis and promoted neurite outgrowth in NG108-15 cells. The extract also enhanced the neurite outgrowth stimulation activity of NGF when applied in combination. The aqueous preparation of H. erinaceus had neurotrophic but not neuroprotective activities.

Nerve growth factor-inducing activity of Hericium erinaceus in 1321N1 human astrocytoma cells.
Mori K1, Obara Y, Hirota M, Azumi Y, Kinugasa S, Inatomi S, Nakahata N. (2008)

Neurotrophic factors are essential to maintain and organize neurons functionally; thereby neurotrophic factor-like substances or their inducers are expected to be applied to the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease. In the present study, we firstly examined the effects of ethanol extracts of four edible mushrooms, Hericium erinaceus (Yamabushitake), Pleurotus eryngii (Eringi), Grifola frondosa (Maitake), and Agaricus blazei (Himematsutake), on nerve growth factor (NGF) gene expression in 1321N1 human astrocytoma cells. Among the four mushroom extracts, only H. erinaceus extract promoted NGF mRNA expression in a concentration-dependent manner. In addition, secretion of NGF protein from 1321N1 cells was enhanced by H. erinaceus extracts, and the conditioned medium of 1321N1 cells incubated with H. erinaceus extract enhanced the neurite outgrowth of PC12 cells. However, hericenones C, D and E, constituents of H. erinaceus, failed to promote NGF gene expression in 1321N1 cells. The enhancement of NGF gene expression by H. erinaceus extracts was inhibited by the c-jun N-terminal kinase (JNK) inhibitor SP600125. In addition, H. erinaceus extracts induced phosphorylation of JNK and its downstream substrate c-Jun, and increased c-fos expression, suggesting that H. erinaceus promotes NGF gene expression via JNK signaling. Furthermore we examined the efficacy of H. erinaceus in vivo. ddY mice given feed containing 5% H. erinaceus dry powder for 7 d showed an increase in the level of NGF mRNA expression in the hippocampus. In conclusion, H. erinaceus contains active compounds that stimulate NGF synthesis via activation of the JNK pathway; these compounds are not hericenones.

Hericenones and erinacines: stimulators of nerve growth factor (NGF) biosynthesis in Hericium erinaceus
Bing-Ji Maa*, Jin-Wen Shena, Hai-You Yua, Yuan Ruana, Ting-Ting Wua & Xu Zhaoa (2010)

This review surveys the chemical and biological literature dealing with the isolation, structural elucidation and bioactivity of hericenones and erinacines from the fruiting body and mycelium of Hericium erinaceus, concentrating on work that has appeared in the literature up to December 2009.

[normalizing]

realmushrooms, how much percent cordycepin is in your product, do you have some idea on average? recently i just saw this; http://ijnp.oxfordjo...ent/19/4/pyv112

[Real Mushrooms]

realmushrooms, how much percent cordycepin is in your product, do you have some idea on average? recently i just saw this; http://ijnp.oxfordjo...ent/19/4/pyv112

 
>0.3% in our Cordyceps-M. Cordycepin is a marker compound in cordyceps militaris. 
 

low dose of 3’-dA (5mg/kg, dissolved in saline)

That is a lot. Not sure where you'll find that much cordycepin.

 

 

[normalizing]

realmushrooms, so maybe extract it from cordyceps militaries and standardize that will yield such high amount of cordycepin? im confused as to why bother taking cordyceps at all, if the most vital compound of it is missing or just present in such insignificant amounts :S

Edited by normalizing, 06 July 2016 - 05:47 AM.

[EFTANG]

 

[...]

 

I really do not understand why there is not any company selling a good mycelium concentrate yet...or maybe I am out of date and someone is doing that now?

 

 

 

Oriveda has a 50/50 blend of fruiting body and liquid mycelium extract. I think they are the only ones that include liquid mycelium. See my earlier post in this thread about my experiences with their product.

[Forever21]

Real Mushroom, from your recommendation I went ahead with https://mushroomscie...com/lions-mane/

 

But I want to get my hands on your Lion's Mane. It's April 2017. Is yours ready for purchase yet? I'm in Downtown Vancouver area. What is the best way to my hands on your Lion's Mane? Any local store that carries it? DO i have to order it from your site?

[Forever21]

I also found 3 other brands that I can't find any comments from Longecity posters. I'm hoping to hear your thoughts on these.

 

BrainForza - recommended by braintropic.com (or at least they link to it)

 

Whole Earth Sea http://www.wholeeart...super-mushroom/

I found from my local store. Any good?

 

Four Sigmatic Lion's Mane - a couple of posts on Longecity without any info/intel. Any thoughts on this? Really expensive.

https://us.foursigma...ons-mane-bundle

[normalizing]

 

realmushrooms let me know when your product has standardized content for hericenone and erinacine in percent until then im not bothering

 

Will do. No idea on the timeline though. 

 

 

im interested in this too. did it come through yet and what holds it back? its been an year since this being mentioned.

 

forever21, thats what you have to look for, percent of hericenone and erinacine and none of your links state them, therefore im skeptical of quality

[Real Mushrooms]

But I want to get my hands on your Lion's Mane. It's April 2017. Is yours ready for purchase yet?

It's been on Amazon.com for over a year now. Also available through Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk and our website. We have a few Canadian health practitioners carrying our products now. Email us directly and I can get you in touch with one in Vancouver.