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C60 and red light

c60 c60evoo epoxide epoxides light mct cancer

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#1 Turnbuckle

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 04:56 PM


Hypothesis: The biological effect of C60 in MCT oil is enhanced by exposure to red light.

 

Background: C60 epoxides are oxides of C60 where C60 has reacted with one or more oxygen atoms. C60 has an energy gap to photo-chemical transformations of around 1.8 eV. This is quite low, thus it is easily oxidized in solution by visible light, even red light. For example, red light of 650 nm present in sunlight and predominately emitted by red LED flashlights has a photon energy of around 1.9 eV and can thus promote the oxidation of C60. This wavelength is highly penetrating. It penetrates the thinnest part of my hand, for example, and can thus promote C60 oxidation in vivo and vitro—even in the dark amber bottles in which C60EVOO is sold. The amber bottles are intended to protect against photo-chemical effects of shorter wavelength light, but with C60’s low energy gap, I expect they don’t prevent the photo-formation of epoxides from the longer wavelengths of red light.

 

The incoming photon (1.8 eV) excites an electron in the C60 to the first excited state, followed by internal conversion and inter-system crossing to form a triplet excited state; in the presence of oxygen, triplet energy transfer occurs and produces singlet oxygen; the simultaneous presence of triplet excited state C60 and singlet oxygen then produces fullerene oxide . . . Four light sources were evaluated, specifically: a 633 nm, 4 mW, HeNe laser, a 100 W, Mercury UV-A (365 nm) lamp, a high intensity white light, and ambient laboratory light (detailed in Section S3). The most effective light source was found to be the red laser source, with the highest irradiance, and was thus employed for most experiments reported in this study.

http://www.sciencedi...021979715000326

 

 

 

Kmoody et al found C60 epoxides in most of the commercial product being sold, but it is not clear if the C60 epoxide itself is responsible for the cancer found in their trial with mice (using one oil from SES). When C60 is oxidized, reactive oxygen species are set loose which can then react with the unsaturated fatty acids of olive oil, creating chemical changes that could be the source of the observed cancer. It’s also possible SES was using some brute force method to dissolve it, like ultrasonic energy, which produces microscopic areas of extreme temperature, and/or their oil sample used by Kmoody was years old. According to their website, they seemed to believe it is good for 3 years, which is highly unlikely.

 

Kmoody: We ran into an issue in that as soon as we sourced C60oo rather than making it in house, we found most vendors sell oxidized C60oo which, in my hands, doubled the cancer rate in our mice. We are working to develop a C60 product produced under FDA compliant GMP standards. For translation, an issue with C60oo is that olive oil is not chemically defined and varies from batch to batch -- an undesirable quality for a drug vehicle. We are currently screening half a dozen or so different vehicles to assess PK/PD to see if any of them are able to get into the body like C60oo. Those studies are done, we are just compiling the data. After that, we will be doing pilot toxicity and efficacy studies with winning candidates using several different animal studies.

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=777147

 

 

 

But is the oxidation of C60 directly causing this problem? Because C60 epoxides themselves have been found to be better antioxidants than pristine C60 in vitro—

 

 

 

The introduction of pin-up oxygen [epoxide] on C60, such as in the oxidized fullerenes C60O and C60On, induced noticeable increase in the antioxidant activity as compared to pristine C60. The water-soluble inclusion complexes of fullerenes C60O and C60On reacted with linoleic acid peroxyl radical 1.7 and 2.4 times faster, respectively.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3244865/

 

 

An Experiment with red light: I’ve used MCT oil as a C60 vehicle for months now, and along with additional hydroxytyrosol it gives me results equal to or better than the best extra virgin olive oil. Also, MCT oil is saturated and thus relatively non-reactive compared to the unsaturated fatty acids in olive oil. Using the MCT mix in this post, I exposed 30 ml in a clear glass beaker placed atop a red LED flashlight (Maxxima Mf-37r Ultra Bright 6 Red Led), with the whole thing wrapped in aluminum foil to prevent light loss and maximize intensity.

 

Total exposure of the C60 MCT oil was 15 minutes.

Dose of the irradiated oil was one teaspoon, once a day.

 

This produced a quite noticeable increase in both aerobic and anaerobic capacity over the unirradiated oil, and did this consistently over a period of days. On occasion it also produced a feeling of excess energy within an hour of taking it, so I did wind sprints to burn it off.

 

Final words: While there is a question about the safety of C60 epoxides, they are better antioxidants than unreacted C60 in vitro, and in my own case, better in vivo for exercise enhancement. The likelihood that some epoxides are always present is high. Solid C60 is known to react with O2 in the dark—

 

 

 

Even sublimed C60 is irreversibly modified after contact with oxygen or air under any condition.

http://www-old.mpi-h...pdf/1703_94.pdf

 

 

—and C60 is known to react with O2 in solution if light and oxygen are present, thus epoxides will likely form unless the vendor and user are very careful, thus creating ROS that can attack the unsaturated fatty acids of olive oil. Also, using C60 in conjunction with LLLT might be a bad idea. Some here have notice negative reactions--see this post. Such effects might be mitigated or eliminated by taking mitochondrial antioxidants such as glutathione, hydroxytyrosol, PQQ, and vitamin C.


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#2 lost69

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 05:52 PM

is also mito q ok as mitochondrial antioxidant?what is the best choice for this purpose between nac and liposomal glutathione (also considering nac is much cheaper)

 

can we avoid most of the problems if we make c60 manually keeping it completely in the dark except when grinding with mortar and putting it in the bottle/extracting air (some light needed to check) and just shaking it daily in the dark for few weeks?


Edited by ste, 25 September 2016 - 06:24 PM.


Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for C60 HEALTH to support Longecity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 Turnbuckle

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 01:07 PM

is also mito q ok as mitochondrial antioxidant?what is the best choice for this purpose between nac and liposomal glutathione (also considering nac is much cheaper)

 

can we avoid most of the problems if we make c60 manually keeping it completely in the dark except when grinding with mortar and putting it in the bottle/extracting air (some light needed to check) and just shaking it daily in the dark for few weeks?

 

For MitoQ, I have no opinion as I've not used it. As for glutathione, I use the Setria brand with good results. I seldom use NAC as it is so aggressive to the stomach. See this post for a previous discussion.

 

I'm not advocating using olive oil, but if you do, dissolve it with a magnetic stirrer, and don't expose it to light, even red light. Amber bottles let in red light, so although they provide partial protection, keep it in the dark just the same and freeze what you are not using in the next couple of weeks. There are discussions on other threads about what olive oil to buy and olive oil's instability, and the following justification for the use of MCT oil instead of olive oil--

 

 

So it's my hypothesis (slightly shifted from the OP) that the combination of dissolved C60 plus one or more polyphenols in the oil act synergistically to enhance longevity. And if you could find a stable, nonreactive oil to dissolve C60 along with HT, you could improve on the Baati mix in several important ways. For instance, you could eliminate the variability inherent in olive oil, eliminate the uncontrolled reactivity of the oil, and supply a mix with more polyphenols than exist naturally.

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=781328

 

 

Bottom line, this thread is about using red light to increase the effectiveness of C60 in MCT oil, but don't use it for olive oil.



#4 lost69

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 02:19 PM

thanks sorry for being off topic here.i m gonna use olive oil because we have our own production, harvest is right now in october/november  



#5 AdamI

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:27 PM

OwnDoc produces it in total darkness, so nothing to worry about for me... 


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#6 ambivalent

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 08:54 PM

Adam,

 

They also claimed to distribute c60oo with concentration levels twice those recorded in samples measured at Ichor labs. There is, it would seem, rather too much at stake to take on trust the claims c60oo vendors make on their websites.

 

Turnbuckle,

 

Thanks for doing such great experimentation for the community. I suspect for many C60mct's appeal lies in its potential to mitigate the apparent non-trivial risk of developing tumours as a result of ingesting poor quality commercial c60oo as well as providing a much safer alternative to the anti-aging benefits of c60oo. Surely the community should be looking to get c60mct into a lab rather soon?  

 

Do you have any plans on doing blind trials yourself for the unirradiated / unirradiated c60mct?

 

thanks.



#7 Turnbuckle

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 09:29 PM

 

 

Do you have any plans on doing blind trials yourself for the unirradiated / unirradiated c60mct?

 

 

 

That's a good idea, and should I do it, the trial will have more than one level of irradiation.


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#8 Turnbuckle

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 02:05 PM

Another experiment with red light and C60/MCT oil:
 
If 15 minutes of red light is good, 30 minutes ought to be even better, right? Nope. After 30 minutes of exposure the mix had the same purple color as before, but when I drank it down as I normally do, mixed with water, I found that it tasted off. And when I smelled the bottle, it definitely had a rancid smell. Probably free caprylic acid, which is said to smell rancid, and possibly also breakdown products of the glycerol backbone of triglycerides. Acrolein, for instance, which has the smell of burned oil.
 
The effect on exercise was still positive, but not as good as the 15-minute trial. The same treatment to the base oil produced no change to taste or smell. So MCT oil is not as good as I thought it was. It’s saturated and thus less easily attacked than the components of olive oil, but it has the same glycerol Achilles’ heel.
 

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#9 ambivalent

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 03:27 PM

It is a basic point, but have you always noticed consistent effects from doses subsequent to the initial dose? It would be interesting to note if you experienced the same effect again from the 15 minute red light exposure (with the same delay between doses).

 

Also for a smell-test comparison what about exposing c60oo to 30 minutes red light exposure? 


Edited by ambivalent, 29 September 2016 - 03:30 PM.

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#10 Turnbuckle

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 05:07 PM

It is a basic point, but have you always noticed consistent effects from doses subsequent to the initial dose? It would be interesting to note if you experienced the same effect again from the 15 minute red light exposure (with the same delay between doses).

 

Also for a smell-test comparison what about exposing c60oo to 30 minutes red light exposure? 

 

I liked the C60/HT/MCT oil better as it produced at least as much effect as the best C60/EVOO, and the exercise benefits didn’t seem to fade when I took it every day. The red-light treated mix did not fade either.
 
After you asked, I tried the red light treatment on a C60/EVOO mix that had about the same amount of C60 and 450 mg/L natural polyphenols. This oil was a very dark whiskey color to begin with, and didn’t change noticeably with 30 minutes red light. It also didn’t smell or taste rancid after the treatment. (I thought maybe the smell was a little stronger, but that may have been my imagination.) Still, the lack of a change doesn’t mean triglycerides weren’t being broken down, as the free fatty acids making up olive oil triglycerides don’t have a naturally rancid taste and smell (unlike the caprylic acid of MCT oil), and the C60/EVOO had a strong smell to begin with, unlike the MCT oil, which had almost none. The bitter oleuropein naturally present in the olive oil mix but not the MCT mix would have masked any small taste difference due to free oleic acid.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 29 September 2016 - 05:08 PM.

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#11 Padmaheruka

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 04:30 PM

MCT oil and C60! is anyone commercially producing this. Some of us research rats are to busy to/ lack confidence to manufacture our own. The idea sounds brilliant!



#12 Turnbuckle

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 12:04 PM

Another experiment as in the OP, once again using 30 ml of MCT mix, but with 4 minutes exposure rather than 5. There was no smell in the beaker, but after an hour in a small bottle, I did smell the faint odor of free caprylic acid. I added 25 mg hydroxytyrosol (from Olea25) and let it sit overnight. The oil insoluble portion of the Olea25 fell out completely, leaving a clear purple. The caprylic odor was still there, but I didn't notice any particular off-flavor drinking it down in water. 

 

The aerobic and anaerobic effect from one teaspoon (5 ml) was definitely stronger than in the OP experiment, and I would call it supercharged compared to the base oil (C60, HT and vitamin E in MCT).

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 October 2016 - 12:09 PM.

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#13 Turnbuckle

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:33 PM

More observations about red light and dissolved C60—
 
(1) The enhancement only seemed to last a few days. Exposing the previously irradiated oil to more red light did not restore the effectiveness, though freezing will likely extend the life. Producing a new batch produced the same anaerobic effect, so the fading was in the mix, not due to biological tolerance.
(2) Adding extra HT to the mix and stirring both before, during, and after irradiation produced about the same result.
(3) After a few days of daily use, the irradiated oil appeared to give me joint pain. This was similar to the joint pain I get from resveratrol, and was reduced by DHEA as it is with resveratrol, but DHEA increases my blood pressure and so is not an option for continuous use.
 
Bottom line: I don’t plan to use the irradiated HT/C60 product due to the joint pain, and will next experiment with adding CoQ10 instead. 
 

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#14 Turnbuckle

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 02:10 PM

First trials with C60/MCT + CoQ10 + red light:

 

The mix was a fresh prep of C60 in MCT oil stirred for one week in the dark and not filtered. The C60 was in excess of the solubility limit as some particles remained and the fluid was turbid. To this I added 3mg/ml COQ10 powder and stirred for an hour. This might also be in excess of the solubility limit.

 

½ teaspoon produced no noticeable exercise benefit at all. Pretty much a zero. The next day I exposed it to 2 minutes of red light as described above, and took another ½ teaspoon. I didn’t think there would be any effect as I didn't give it much light and I didn’t initially feel anything, however I was wrong about that. Anaerobic exercise capacity was noticeably higher than any trial reported above with HT. I haven’t any experience with mitoQ, but I imagine that C60 is acting in a similar manner, dragging CoQ10 adducts into the mitochondria. Later I did get a slight head effect—a slight pressure that was vaguely unpleasant. This could be the result of too much coffee, however.

 

Years ago I'd added CoQ10 to C60/EVOO and found no benefit, so it appears that irradiation makes all the difference. The CoQ10 has to be attached and red light appears to create reactive sites sufficient to do that.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 October 2016 - 02:13 PM.

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#15 ShivaShakti

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 05:22 PM

Hi Turnbuckle

c60+mct+redlight, how long does beneficial effect last? 1 day? or 4days? or?

Thanks



#16 Turnbuckle

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 07:10 PM

Hi Turnbuckle

c60+mct+redlight, how long does beneficial effect last? 1 day? or 4days? or?

Thanks

 

I'm presently using the C60/MCT + CoQ10 + red light as in post #14 above. I'm using 1/2 to 1 teaspoon per dose, with the exercise effects seeming to last around a day or less. I keep the mix frozen, but I may start irradiating individual doses as needed as it only takes a couple of minutes. So far 1 teaspoon seems definitely better than 1/2.



#17 ShivaShakti

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 03:41 AM

​What brand of CoQ10 do you use?
I was hoping if it stay in your system like c60oo, upto four days or more? depending on dosage intake maybe?

I have COPD, and I want to DIY like most of you. However as i read C60oo effects vary from brand to brand of olive oils.  Cheaper kirkland vs expensive amphora nueva, oliviers&co.

 



#18 Turnbuckle

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 05:17 PM

​What brand of CoQ10 do you use?
I was hoping if it stay in your system like c60oo, upto four days or more? depending on dosage intake maybe?

I have COPD, and I want to DIY like most of you. However as i read C60oo effects vary from brand to brand of olive oils.  Cheaper kirkland vs expensive amphora nueva, oliviers&co.

 

 

I'm using a CoQ10 without any additives, a dry powder in caps, added at a level of 100 mg/oz. Note that I'm also using MCT oil, not olive oil, and I don't recommend irradiating EVOO/C60. 



#19 ShivaShakti

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:38 AM

thanks Turnbuckle

 



#20 BieraK

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:31 AM

I've used LLLT infrared light with C60 in the past, nothing bad happened, some of the effects of LLLT were blocked by c60, it was like taking antioxidant that prevent ROS formation and in that ways prevents the hormesis effect of LLLT.
 



#21 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:51 AM

More data—

 

For C60 (max solubility)/MCT + CoQ10 (max solubility) & 2 minutes irradiation with red light, the extra exercise boost lasts just a few hours, but other effects—such as alcohol tolerance—last longer. A day at least, possibly more. My next experiment will be irradiating in a vacuum.

 

A trial mixing this irradiated preparation into olive oil before dosing showed no exercise benefit.

 

A trial using astaxanthin instead of CoQ10 showed no exercise benefit, and perhaps a slight reduction.

 


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#22 platypus

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:58 PM

I wish we could find a quantitative test that would show differences between irradiated and non-irradiated samples.


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#23 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:25 PM

I wish we could find a quantitative test that would show differences between irradiated and non-irradiated samples.

 

 

An FFA test should easily distinguish the two, as the MCT oil breaks down into free fatty acids, judging by the smell. And the longer the exposure the stronger the smell.

 

http://www.cdrfoodla...-fats-oils.html


Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 November 2016 - 02:28 PM.


#24 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 06:44 PM

A trial with C60 in MCT (max solubility) + 200 mg CoQ10 in 50 ml mix. The CoQ10 was mixed into previously prepared C60/MCT oil and then stirred under a vacuum for 4 hours, irradiated with red light for 2 minutes under vacuum, then stirred an additional 10 hours under vacuum.

 

For running, 1/2 teaspoon was as good as anything I'd previously prepared with red light irradiation, even at the teaspoon or tablespoon dosage, and was much smoother, lacking the over-caffeinated feel.

 

From this I suspect that oxygen should be eliminated at every step, including the preparation of the C60/MCT oil. Stirring after irradiation is also advisable, as it ensures the reactions are compete.



#25 jeanlzt11

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:01 PM

What are you using to create a vacuum?  

Thanks



#26 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:27 PM

What are you using to create a vacuum?  

Thanks

 

There are a number of units on the market, but as it happens I used the one you recommended. I haven't put a gauge to it so I don't know how effective it is. Even so, it could be improved further by filling the jar with inert gas before vacuuming. Like a wine preserver, though I haven't tried that yet.



#27 jeanlzt11

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 12:26 AM

Thanks, good to know.  I haven't ordered it yet so I didn't know if the thick, concave glass bottom would let the stir bar operate correctly.  Glad to know you can use it that way.  I'm going to try the balloon test like in the video and see how long it maintains it's size. Please let me know if you put a gauge on it.



#28 Turnbuckle

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:03 AM

Thanks, good to know.  I haven't ordered it yet so I didn't know if the thick, concave glass bottom would let the stir bar operate correctly.  Glad to know you can use it that way.  I'm going to try the balloon test like in the video and see how long it maintains it's size. Please let me know if you put a gauge on it.

 

The curved bottom will likely be a problem, but I used a beaker inside the jar to hold the mix, and the beaker had a flat bottom. 


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#29 ambivalent

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 03:11 PM

Hi Turnbuckle,

 

I noted from reading your informative bio that you have, remarkably, gained 1 inch in height since using the MCT oil over the last year. Naturally, it is too difficult to isolate whether any other additional factors you've introduced over this time could have contributed but do you have any theories? Also while using c60oo you reported shoe-size growth. Are these reclaimed gains from your youth? Neither of these have been reported by anyone else, as far as I know but they've probably gone unnoticed if the gains are fractions of an inch. Also, do you think this lends weight to the idea of c60oo triggering epigenetic changes? 


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#30 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 04:21 PM

Hi Turnbuckle,

 

I noted from reading your informative bio that you have, remarkably, gained 1 inch in height since using the MCT oil over the last year. Naturally, it is too difficult to isolate whether any other additional factors you've introduced over this time could have contributed but do you have any theories? Also while using c60oo you reported shoe-size growth. Are these reclaimed gains from your youth? Neither of these have been reported by anyone else, as far as I know but they've probably gone unnoticed if the gains are fractions of an inch. Also, do you think this lends weight to the idea of c60oo triggering epigenetic changes? 

 

The gain in height is possibly reclaimed, while the increase in shoe size is definitely new. My shoe size had been absolutely constant for 40+ years, but beginning with my C60 experiment in 2012, it has been increasing at a rate of around 1/4 size/year. It's up one full size, and judging by the tightness of my present shoes, I will probably have to up it another half size this year. This is likely due to the apparent ability of C60 to stimulate the differentiation of stem cells. See the following paper re brown adipose-derived stem cells (BADSCs) stimulated by C60--

 

In summary, our findings provide evidence supporting the role of fullerene-C60 in modulating the proliferation and cardiomyogenic differentiation of rat BADSCs. The fullerene-C60 nanomaterials do not induce the cytotoxicity in BADSCs even at high concentrations (100 μg/mL). In addition, fullerene-C60 easily transfects cells and modulates the expression of MAPK signaling (ERK and p38) related to stem cell survival, proliferation, and cardiomyogenesis, thereby enhancing proliferative activity of BADSCs. Further, fullerene-C60 improves cardiomyogenic differentiation of BADSCs. It promotes the formation of gap junctions in cells and further improves the cell–cell communication. These results provide an opportunity to enhance the proliferation and cardiomyogenic differentiation of stem cells...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4723099/

 

One user of C60 here has reported that his previous injection of stem cells in his knee was apparently stimulated once again by C60, to the point that he felt he'd had another injection.

 

After I started C60oo I noticed the knee improving as though I had received a second stem cell injection and these days I complain of sore feet as do the other traffic controllers, but I no longer complain about my knee because it simply doesn't bother me.

 

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=547696

 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 February 2017 - 04:26 PM.

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