22 replies to this topic

[shifter]

I was wondering what the healthiest way to lose weight rapidly is.

 

I know the science is to make sure you have a calorie deficit each day

 

For example if I (in my natural process of living) burn 2500 calories a day, a diet of 500 calories a day will force my body to utilise 2000 calories elsewhere (hopefully from fat). There are 7800odd calories in 1kg (2.2lbs) of fat so in theory in 4 days I should lose 1 solid kg of fat (not counting fluid).

 

People who exercise a lot tend to eat a lot more and then wonder why they aren't losing weight as fast as someone who doesn't exercise (but eats less)

 

Unfortunately due to an arthritic hip from a subluxed hip, I want to do this without 'exercise'. Running and walking for too long can make it very painful, pushups, sit ups, lifting weights are also a problem.

 

However what is the best way to attain an 'ASAP' weight loss but doing it in the most healthy way possible.

 

I hear about water fasting, or juice fasting or cleansing and detox diets etc

 

In the past, I would do this by trying to limit to 500 calories but I would make those calories very nutritious. I would take a multivitamin, a little low carb protein and little pieces of food at mealtimes. My goal was to keep my body supplied with all the nutritents and most of the protein requirements without the calories. I am not hugely overweight so I would attain my goal in about 2-3 weeks.

 

 

I want to try this again and lose 10kgs this time. I used to fit in a size 32 pants. Now I am almost busting out of my 34's and moving onto 36. I want a flat stomach again but due to the fact my arthritic hip keeps me from being too active, the only thing I can do is a severe calorie deficit diet for a little while. Just, what is the healthiest way.

 

 

So Water Fasting (maybe add a pinch of chlorella or spirulina to it)

Juice fasting (but the sugar!)

Supplements and 500 calorie a day diet?

 

And how do you know when you are in ketosis? Last time I was on a 500calorie a day diet I felt like crap and was borderline hypoglycemic (measured on blood glucose meter here at work) until I ate something. Should I have kept going? Can you reach this state if you are eating anything?

 

Edited by shifter, 12 January 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[dankis]

I advise you to try long term water fast (0 calories). Apart from weight loss your should gain massive long term health benefits, and of course contribute to our socienty by reporting your body changes

Please do standard blood work before and after 3-4 week 0 cal fast.

 

I would like to try it by myself, but my body fat is too low for long term fast. The longest fast i have done was 5 days. I was feeling great, kinda hypomanic but I was doing deep ketogenic diet with IF before so there wasn't any crappy feeling adaptation period.

 

Best way to test if you are in ketosis is to use blood ketone meter strips. Over 1 mmol/l of beta hydroxybutyrate is nice. Around 3 mmol/l is deep keto.

 

Good luck shifter and stay strong!

[shifter]

I've never done that before but I'll try that for as long as I can manage

 

I'll do the before/after blood tests as well starting tonight after work I'll go to a clinic.

 

What are the important things I need to request for the blood test to get valueable data? As they are free from the doctor I also need a good reason to ask for them. If I told him I want to do a water fast he will advise against it and not do the test.

 

I can inquire about cholesterol (family history but I know I'm okay) and Vitamin D (taken supplements). I assume glucose is standard in any test but anything else specific? What do we all want to know to come from a water fast and I'll ask for it

 

I'd also like to hear peoples experiences having done this before...

 

How many days was it 'hard' to do for?

Does it get easier? (lose hunger)

How do you feel day to day? (good, indifferent, weak or headaches)

Should I be worried if I get hypoglycemic or is that 'normal' on this fast?

How long before 'Ketosis' kicks in and do you just 'know' or do you have to measure to be sure?

If the normal consumption of water is approx 2L per day, is that amount increased on a water fast diet?

 

 

Also If I am not hungry for a while and then I wake up 'hungry' a few weeks in is that the optimal time for me to end the fast? (body signalling me to start eating).

 

I'll be in a house thats full of people eating food. How do you stop the temptation? Does the smell of food and constant presence of it disrupt your bodies efforts (such as giving false/constant signals to begin eating)

 

I'll keep a log of my weight loss although I guess that means I have to be strict to the ml of how much water I put in each day (If I drink an extra litre during some of the days that will throw off the weight)

 

I guess a lot of those people or criminals who go on 'hunger strikes' could also be doing a good thing for their bodies then. We should applaud them for being so proactive about their health

[chemicalambrosia]

Check out Lyle Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat loss Handbook, which is a form of a protein-sparing modified fast. The "Velocity Diet", made and promoted by T-mag, is the same concept, only using protein shakes only. They want you to buy their protein, but you can do it using cheaper protein powders. These are both basically the same concept and both are very effective crash diets.

[misterE]

Lower the calorie-density of your diet.

[shifter]

I figured I should maximise the most from this and start it in a way that will most likely end up in success than failure.

 

I arranged to see a naturopath who will do all the blood analysis etc and a live blood analysis and will do this right. I'm not sure how much of it could be hocus pocus but one insentive that will make me more commited is of course financial. The cost of the consultation and blood tests will be $200. I figure if I dont fast for 4 weeks, thats my money made back and got some good data I can share at the same time. If I go into this straight away and free testing the incentive is not so great and may end up in failure. (money is a great motivator)

 

I'll see what they say anyway. If anything, I'll get some good data and some advice I can cherry pick

 

The appointment earliest date was for February 6, so that will give me time to prepare, research and practice a little. I dont want to do too much yet though because I want an accurate 'before' testing

 

I also have a R/O filtration system which will come in handy for this. Normally I drink it after it goes through a remineralization process but I can take the water before it does this during the fast to help the 'detox' effect

[sensei]

Zero, and super low calories diets will actually shut down your metabolism.

 

To be healthy, a person should not drop below 1200 calories a day.

 

Just for muscle maintenance and essential protein and enzyme synthesis a sedentary adult needs approximately ~.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight (.36 -.6 depending on the organization) -- that equates to ~80 grams of protein for a 160 lb adult. (50-100)

 

That equals 320 calories just from protein.

 

The most efficacious and healthy in my experience with multiple people is anything along the lines of the South Beach Diet -- very very low carbs, about 40% of your calories from healthy fats and 40% from protein.

 

Low carbs do not cause diabetes -- it prevents diabetes

[Teakles]

It is necessary to eat often but with small portions. That is the healthest way!

[platypus]

Do not lose too much muscle as low muscle+mass is an unhealthy condition which also makes keeping your weight down very difficult (or impossible). 

[misterE]

 

Low carbs do not cause diabetes -- it prevents diabetes

 

Oh please!

 

Low carb diets increase the same hormones that are elevated in diabetes. Those hormones are called glucocorticoids (like glucagon and cortisol) and are increased when the body requires more glucose. And insulin is the key hormone for reversing diabetes, that is why diabetics have to take insulin or use medications that makes insulin more potent. People with diabetes have insulin-resistance and their insulin is not working; its not having an effect in the body. Low-carb diets decrease insulin-secretion, leading to less insulinogenic effects in the body, how is that suppose to help with diabetes? Finally low-carb diets increase free-fatty-acids (FFA's) and chronic exposure of FFAs damages the beta-cells on the pancreas which also reduces insulin-secretion. And of course without insulin you are in serious trouble and your survival is going down hill quickly.

[sensei]

 

People with diabetes have insulin-resistance and their insulin is not working; its not having an effect in the body. 

 

 

Low carb diets coupled with exercise reverses Type 2 diabetes in adults

 

Insulin resistance is CAUSED by a high carb diet -- due to the high levels of insulin secreted due to the glycemic load

 

"Eight-four volunteers with obesity and type 2 diabetes were randomized to either a low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet (less than 20 grams of carbs/day) or a low-glycemic, reduced calorie diet (500 calories/day). Both groups attended group meetings, had nutritional supplementation and an exercise regimen.

After 24 weeks, their glycemic control was determined by a blood test that measured hemoglobin A1C, a standard test used to determine blood sugar control in patients with diabetes. Of those who completed the study, the volunteers in the low-carbohydrate diet group had greater improvements in hemoglobin A1C. Diabetes medications were reduced or eliminated in 95 percent of the low-carbohydrate volunteers, compared to 62 percent in the low-glycemic group. The low-carbohydrate diet also resulted in a greater reduction in weight."

 

"It's simple," says Westman. "If you cut out the carbohydrates, your blood sugar goes down, and you lose weight which lowers your blood sugar even further. It's a one-two punch."

 

http://www.scienceda...90105175326.htm

 

Duke University Medical Center

Edited by sensei, 23 January 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[gamesguru]

Lower the calorie-density of your diet.

This, and improve food quality/nutrition...more nutrition means more metabolism. For this reason I advise against a water fast; best not to elicit a starvation response.

 

Matcha or sencha (and exercise obviously) will help metabolism too.

 

After 16 weeks, high-fat-fed mice that exercised regularly and ingested green tea extract showed an average body mass reduction of 27.1 percent and an average abdominal fat mass reduction of 36.6 percent.

The mice on the green-tea-extract-and-exercise regimen also experienced a 17 percent reduction in fasting blood glucose level, a 65 percent decrease in plasma insulin level and reduction in insulin resistance of 65 percent -- all substantial improvements related to diabetic health.

 

Mice that ingested green tea extract but did not exercise or those that exercised but were not given green tea extract experienced less significant changes in weight and health measurements, noted lead researcherJoshua Lambert, associate professor of food science.

[GoingPrimal]

I would look into the fact a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. 10 calories of sucrose is not metabolized the same way 10 calories of casein protein is - same for 10 calories of saturated fat vs. 10 calories of MCTs. 

 

Further, the caloric burn of certain exercises does not equate to the overall weight loss (fat loss) of such exercises. For example 100 calories burned via HIIT vs 100 calories burned via low intensity steady state cardio does not equal one another.

 

We haven't even touched upon the hormonal effects of both food or exercise, upon other things.

[drew_ab]

We haven't even touched upon the hormonal effects of both food or exercise, upon other things.

Could you expand on this?

[niner]

I was wondering what the healthiest way to lose weight rapidly is.

 

The healthiest way is to not need to do it because your regular daily diet it not making you fat.   Sorry to sound glib, but I'm serious about this.  Sugars are the biggest problem for most people, followed by calorie-dense high fat foods in excessive quantity.  Try cutting out (as much as is reasonably possible) all sugars with the exception of those that come from whole fruit.  No soft drinks, no fruit juices, no other sweetened drinks.  Artificial sweeteners are ok, but should be taken with (or not too long after) food.  Eat quality meat and fish, and all the vegetables you want.  Learn to cook fresh vegetables, and get some high quality olive oil.  A gram of ALCAR or a gram or two of carnitine a day would probably help to shrink abdominal fat.

 

An arthritic hip may stop you from some forms of exercise, but is your upper body healthy?  If so, there are a lot of lifts you could still do.  There are probably also some lower extremity exercises you could do, and maybe some back, neck, and abs work as well.  You might try scheduling some time with a physical therapist or maybe an orthopedist to help you design an exercise program.  Is a hip replacement something that could be in the cards?  That might be worth thinking about.

 

I hear about water fasting, or juice fasting or cleansing and detox diets etc

 

Water fasting has some distinct benefits, but long fasts are very difficult.  The rest of the list is internet hooey.   A juice fast is just a bad diet, not a fast.

Edited by niner, 24 January 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[shifter]

I've been reading up and I am wondering, is the classic 'detox effect' nothing more than the bodies electrolytes being out of balance? Eating is habit forming, perhaps that innate need to eat but refusal todo so gives withdrawal symptoms. People are saying the detox effect is the result of the toxic fat finally being used up an eliminated but is the fat truely toxic?

 

I am thinking of a calorie restricted keto diet. I need to be on top of my game at the moment as I am finishing one job and hopefully starting another (can't rock up to job interviews having not eaten for weeks and driving a car could be dangerous).

 

The keto diet is supposed to have the same effect as a water fasting right? Given that the metabolism shuts down in a water fast, the weight loss on a calorie restricted keto diet could be the same anyway I am thinking. Also on an extended water fast it is unlikely one could do any form of exercise (both from having no energy and the worry of muscle wasting). On a keto diet I can be more active further keeping my metabolism ticking over faster than what I would be on a water fast diet.

 

At the end, I hope to have a better relationship with food so the need to 'lose weight' will no longer exist. It's only 10kg I want to lose but despite having all the ingredients to great health, I have this stupid craving every afternoon/evening for heaps of sugar/carbs. I thought a waterfast would be a good shock to the system and snap me out of it, but it's looking not so good for health (and the timing is not so good to attempt one currently). I don't want to be part of some fad that has might have no basis in fact if there are healther alternatives. If I log on to a breatharian web site I'll 'learn' all about how 'healthy' that is. Doesn't mean it is in reality.

 

Also I never have soft drinks, fruit juices or cordials etc either. Only liquids I have is purified water (and the odd tea/coffee during social gatherings).

 

 

 

 

 

I was wondering what the healthiest way to lose weight rapidly is.

 

The healthiest way is to not need to do it because your regular daily diet it not making you fat.   Sorry to sound glib, but I'm serious about this.  Sugars are the biggest problem for most people, followed by calorie-dense high fat foods in excessive quantity.  Try cutting out (as much as is reasonably possible) all sugars with the exception of those that come from whole fruit.  No soft drinks, no fruit juices, no other sweetened drinks.  Artificial sweeteners are ok, but should be taken with (or not too long after) food.  Eat quality meat and fish, and all the vegetables you want.  Learn to cook fresh vegetables, and get some high quality olive oil.  A gram of ALCAR or a gram or two of carnitine a day would probably help to shrink abdominal fat.

 

An arthritic hip may stop you from some forms of exercise, but is your upper body healthy?  If so, there are a lot of lifts you could still do.  There are probably also some lower extremity exercises you could do, and maybe some back, neck, and abs work as well.  You might try scheduling some time with a physical therapist or maybe an orthopedist to help you design an exercise program.  Is a hip replacement something that could be in the cards?  That might be worth thinking about.

 

I hear about water fasting, or juice fasting or cleansing and detox diets etc

 

Water fasting has some distinct benefits, but long fasts are very difficult.  The rest of the list is internet hooey.   A juice fast is just a bad diet, not a fast.

 

 

[misterE]

Think about this.  2 heads of lettuce is 150 calories. 1 tablespoon of oil is 150 calories thereabout. If you were to eat two heads of lettuce or one tablespoon of oil; which would be more calorie dense; which would fill you up more? What takes up more room in the stomach; oil or lettuce?

 

Edited by misterE, 27 January 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Multivitz]

Ketogenic lifestyle with a blood type diet. If only I could afford it

[Multivitz]

My friend lost 3 stone in 3 months only after he started drinking distilled water! Needless to say he rang me up to thank me for my suggestion (he lives in the USA)

[Luminosity]

I've lost a lot of weight rapidly many times.  I eventually gained it all back with interest.  Most people do.  There is no healthy way to lose weight rapidly.   

[Multivitz]

Fat stores poisons, are you up to speed on myco toxins and metal build ups. A favorite one of mine is mitochondria exhaustion repair, very difficult to reconise. Most people have myco blood infections a sure sign is lipomas, for sure. 'Oh thats just a fatty lump', yeah right, how out of date is MD knowledge??

[misterE]

Fat stores poisons

 

Yes... body fat does store toxins. And when you undergo lipolysis, you release lots of toxins. However most of these chemicals are fat-soluble; meaning they are sucked up into fat, especially animal-fats and fish. Fat not only contains toxins, but it also is much more calorie-dense than carbohydrates. Plus its already in the form for storage; leading to body-fat gain.

[docmaas]

Bupropion:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11557835

 

http://www.medscape....warticle/844575

 

I had unexplained weight loss over the last 3 years declining from 170 to 135 pounds.  This was in parallel with my dx of T2 diabetes but I only cut back on carbs with that dx and discontinued metformin after taking up swimming 3x a week -- no special dietary intervention.  My Dr. didn't have an explanation and all my labs looked good and my health is excellent but the weight loss persisted.  

 

When I encountered the the Medscape article cited above the light came on.  I had started on bupropion in the same time frame.  I went from 100mg 2x day to 200 mg 2x day then back to 200 1x day.  I stayed at 100 up until recently.  I had tapered back to 0 bupropion in half dose steps over about 2 months.  I did this because I felt too bubbly.  I'm still off the bupropion and still maintaining my 135 weight.  At 71 and exercising regularly I feel great but I do look like a bag of bones.

 

I'm sure that not everyone will tolerate buproprion but it may be a good match for many.  I am missing some of the pro-social effects and may start back on it eventually.  I've not found lithium to be a replacement for that purpose.  I have added pregnenolone though which I had great success with when on prozac many years ago.

 

Mike