2503 replies to this topic

[Kelvin]

What would be a good schedule to alternate these two protocols?

I think you can space them closely together. Stem cells mostly complete turning into new cells within 2 days so you can probably use the mito a protocol a day after you finish the 2nd fission day.

I have done the mito cycle a few days before and a few days after each C60 cycle with good effects.

One problem is that you may be depleted of methyl stores with all of that AKG consumption so you should probably take a break every couple of cycles and replenish your methyl stores with TMG.

[Kelvin]

I also recommend taking some rounds of the mito protocol before going on the C60 cycle. I get very hungry if I create stem cells but didn’t strengthen my mitochondria with some mito cycles. Once I took the mito cycles appetite reduced again.

Here is my latest variation on Turnbuckle’s mito protocol -

Fission/Fusion Cycle without NMN (to be rotated on a 1 to 1 basis with Fission/Fusion cycles that include NMN)

Fission


1 gram Nicotinamide
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ


Fusion

1 gram Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent rise in blood pressure)
2 grams Dihydromyricetin
50 mgs Sulforaphane
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ




Fission/Fusion Cycle WITH NMN (to be rotated on a 1 to 1 basis with Fission/Fusion cycles that do not include NMN)


Fission


1 gram NMN (Do not combine NMN with other fission or NAD+ promoters because although NMN causes fission across most of the body it actually promotes fusion in the brain)
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ


Fusion

1 gram Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent rise in blood pressure)
2 grams Dihydromyricetin
50 mgs Sulforaphane
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ




Every 3 to 4 mitochondrial cycles I take -

3 grams of TMG. TMG replenishes methyl stores.

3 grams Arginine. Arginine provides fuel to newly enhanced mitochondria.

300 mgs Ubiquinol. Ubiquinol feeds healthy mitochondria.

200 mgs R-Alpha Lipoic Acid. R-ALA provides additional fuel to mitochondria and helps clean up free radicals that may have been created from destroying damaged mitochondria.

Edited by Kelvin, 31 January 2023 - 01:48 AM.

[FWP]

Could tryptophan have the same effect as 5-HTP?

[Answers]

Do you have to take everything in the protocol? It's just that it would be pretty expensive to buy all those and I've not reacted well to some of the stuff in it or it hasn't helped me in the past.
What are the most important, aside from c60 of course?

I'm also wondering if it's ok to take c60 capsules as I can't stomach swallowing oils.

Would other substances that cause neurogenesis be able to circulate stem cells in the frontal lobes and other areas?

[Kelvin]

Do you have to take everything in the protocol? It's just that it would be pretty expensive to buy all those and I've not reacted well to some of the stuff in it or it hasn't helped me in the past.
What are the most important, aside from c60 of course?

I'm also wondering if it's ok to take c60 capsules as I can't stomach swallowing oils.

Would other substances that cause neurogenesis be able to circulate stem cells in the frontal lobes and other areas?

Yes you can take C60 capsules. Remember to wrap the C60 capsule bottle in aluminum foil and store it in the freezer.

Also be aware that it may take 5 to 10 capsules to get 3mgs of C60, depending on the brand you use. So check the amount of C60 per capsule before choosing your brand.

I don’t know of anything else that could circulate neural stem cells aside from SSRIs.

Here is a version of my protocol that is slimmed down to the absolute essentials needed for it to work -

***** 0 hour *****

2 to 3 grams Dihydromyricetin (I find 4 grams to be draining)
2 grams Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent blood pressure from rising because of the fusion agents)
3 grams AAKG (Swanson Vitamins brand)



***** 10 to 20 minutes later *****

1 gram Liposomal Glutathione
500 or 1,000 mgs TMG

--------> 100 mgs HTP-5 (Note - This is optional and could be done once after every 3 to 4 cycles. Do NOT take more than 100 mgs of 5-HTP in a 24 hour period. Do not combine SAM-e and 5-HTP)


***** 10 minutes later *****

--------> 500 mgs Astragalus Root Extract (Use astralagus root every 10th cycle)

2 grams Methionine
2 grams Lysine

3 mgs C60 oil capsules (Taken AFTER having every other supplement)



*** Take the same amino acids (2 grams methionine and 2 grams lysine) whenever you feel sleepy, or, every 1 - 3 hours for that day and the next three days to keep feeding your stem cells.

Remember to have LOTS of methionine and lysine supplements available because you will feel sleepy if you don't feed your stem cells with these two amino acids.

I recommend having 500 capsules of lysine and 500 capsules of methionine with 500 mgs per capsule on hand whenever doing the C60 cycle.



*** Fission/Senolytics Day 1. The day after taking C60 take senolytics and fission promoters once in the morning, but not for more than 3 days. One could also drop the senolytics if you aren't seeing benefits and just use AAKG, Nicotinamide or NMN for fission promotion.


3 grams AAKG
100 mgs Fisetin (Fission promoter and Senolytic. Can be reduced to 100 mgs if one stops feeling an effect from them)
500 mgs Quercetin (Senolytic)
1 gram Nicotinamide (Fission and NAD+ promoter)
(Optional) 1 gram Curcumin (Senolytic but promotes fusion. Use only occasionally with fission promoters to trigger apoptosis of senescent cells because combining fission promoters with fusion promoters may work against eachother)


*** Fission/Senolytics Day 2.


3 grams AAKG
500 mgs Quercetin (Senolytic)
1 gram NMN (Fission and NAD+ promoter (except in the brain where it promotes fusion). When using NMN do not use it with other fission promoters or with other NAD+ promoters because NMN causes fusion in the brain)

Edited by Kelvin, 31 January 2023 - 10:27 PM.

[Kelvin]

Could tryptophan have the same effect as 5-HTP?

It is a precursor to 5-HTP so the effect on serotonin might be delayed until after C60 has its effect.

I would just take 5-HTP so both it and C60 are active at the same time in the brain instead of waiting for tryptophan to convert to 5-HTP.

[Kelvin]

An interesting meta-analysis on antidepressants and neural stem cells proliferation.

https://stemcellsjou...02/sctm.19-0020

Unfortunately it doesn’t mention if stem cells proliferated in any area of the brain aside from the hippocampus.

What I would be most interested in is whether they detected stem cell proliferation in the frontal lobes, or any other area of the brain that lacks stem cells.

Edited by Kelvin, 31 January 2023 - 10:26 PM.

[Answers]

I haven't taken this yet as I still have to buy everything. But I don't know if it will do much good if the stem cells produced would only be available in the hippocampus.
I also have dysautonomia and was hoping it could benefit that as well as cognitive problems.

Will/can the stem cells reach other areas of the body beyond the brain? I was hoping they would go where they were needed. Like parts of the brain or nerves etc that need repair.

I'm surprised that stem cells from this protocol might not even reach the frontal lobes without taking 5htp.

Edited by Answers, 08 February 2023 - 01:27 PM.

[Kelvin]

Keep in mind that the idea SSRIs could circulate neural stem cells in parts of the brain that have few, or zero, stem cell pools, is a hypothesis. This hypothesis seems plausible to me because I noticed a cognitive boost using 5-HTP with the protocol that I did not get without it.

BUT it is possible the cognitive boost I have felt was caused by some other mechanism instead of neural stem cells reaching areas where there are no stem cell pools.

I used 5-HTP because it is an easily available SSRI with a good safety profile and it does not need a prescription.

But according to Turnbuckle’s thinking, any SSRI should do. This includes psilocybin which exists in certain mushrooms, though I would personally avoid them because not all mushroom supplements are quality and bad mushrooms can be dangerous.

My suggestion to you is to try a few C60 cycles without any SSRI and then try an SSRI for at least two cycles.

Write down any cognitive changes you notice before and after adding an SSRI and then report back to us how it went.

Ultimately, you won’t know if an SSRI will benefit you or not until you try it.

IF you do see a different improvement after adding an SSRI then that would be another point in favor of this hypothesis.

A low dose of psilocybin is the right approach --



The use of serotonin reuptake inhibitors with C60 and dihydromyricetin will increase neural SC proliferation. If anyone tries it with a small dose of cocaine (a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin), I would be interested in hearing the results.

Edited by Kelvin, 09 February 2023 - 04:08 AM.

[Kelvin]

I haven't taken this yet as I still have to buy everything. But I don't know if it will do much good if the stem cells produced would only be available in the hippocampus.
I also have dysautonomia and was hoping it could benefit that as well as cognitive problems.

Will/can the stem cells reach other areas of the body beyond the brain? I was hoping they would go where they were needed. Like parts of the brain or nerves etc that need repair.

I'm surprised that stem cells from this protocol might not even reach the frontal lobes without taking 5htp.

As far as nerves outside the brain, I did reverse some numbness on a small side of my left pinky finger that I have had for about 20 years because of an elbow injury.

I’m not sure if it would affect other nerves though.

[Answers]

Sorry Kelvin but can I just ask when it comes to the fission/senelytics,can I just use AAKG, quercetin and nicotinamide for the two days? Or is fisetin and the NMN really necessary?

I'm also wondering if AAKG will have the same demethylating effect as AKG?

How often should I repeat this protocol, every third day?

I'm also taking a herb called albizia alongside uridine and not sure if I can continue to take these alongside the protocol.

Thanks for all your help.

Edited by Answers, 10 February 2023 - 02:23 AM.

[Kelvin]

Sorry Kelvin but can I just ask when it comes to the fission/senelytics,can I just use AAKG, quercetin and nicotinamide for the two days? Or is fisetin and the NMN really necessary?

I'm also wondering if AAKG will have the same demethylating effect as AKG?

How often should I repeat this protocol, every third day?

I'm also taking a herb called albizia alongside uridine and not sure if I can continue to take these alongside the protocol.

Thanks for all your help.

If price is an issue you can drop NMN for nicotinamide only, or you can use NMN once every 2 to 3 cycles so 1 bottle of NMN lasts you longer before you need to buy more.

I would keep the 100 mg Fisetin for at least the 1st fission day to kill off weaker cells, although 1 bottle of Fisetin really shouldn’t be that expensive.

Yes, AAKG will have the same demethylating effect as AKG. So supplement TMG every third cycle (or so) to refill your methyl stores.

You can repeat the C60 fusion day once every 3 days or every week. I did once every 3 days last February and March for six cycles and noticed excellent effects.

IF the protocol works for you, the positive effects should be apparent by the 3rd or 4th cycle.

Do not use ANY other supplements on the cycle, even common ones like Vitamin C or Vitamin D, because the protocol by now has been highly refined over years of trial and error, mostly by Turnbuckle but also others who tried it for themselves.

So don’t add other supplements because they might have some unknown effect UNLESS you understand the scientific reasoning for adding another supplement VERY well.

[Answers]

Thanks Kelvin.

One final thing: I have reservations about taking so much methionine because I expect I have genes that are hypermethylated and reacted poorly to SAMe in the past.

Is it really necessary to take that much and so often? Will it negate the demethylase effects of taking AAKG?

[Kelvin]

Thanks Kelvin.

One final thing: I have reservations about taking so much methionine because I expect I have genes that are hypermethylated and reacted poorly to SAMe in the past.

Is it really necessary to take that much and so often? Will it negate the demethylase effects of taking AAKG?

Because the protocol uses AAKG, the methionine you take should cancel out.

If you think you are overmethylated then try 3 or 4 cycles of my mito protocol before you try my C60 protocol because AKG will shrink your methyl stores and fission plus PQQ will wipe out a good chunk of any cells you have that have epigenetic damage from excess methylation.

Besides, even if overmethylation isn’t an issue it is a good idea to use the mito protocol beforehand so that newly generated stem cells have access to the healthiest possible mitochondria.

Methionine is very strongly recommended because stem cells need it for food and, in your case in particular, because it encourages stem cell proliferation.

Proliferation is what you want to happen to get neural stem cells to proliferate broadly.

Edited by Kelvin, 10 February 2023 - 08:19 PM.

[Answers]

Because the protocol uses AAKG, the methionine you take should cancel out.

If you think you are overmethylated then try 3 or 4 cycles of my mito protocol before you try my C60 protocol because AKG will shrink your methyl stores and fission plus PQQ will wipe out a good chunk of any cells you have that have epigenetic damage from excess methylation.

Besides, even if overmethylation isn’t an issue it is a good idea to use the mito protocol beforehand so that newly generated stem cells have access to the healthiest possible mitochondria.

Methionine is very strongly recommended because stem cells need it for food and, in your case in particular, because it encourages stem cell proliferation.

Proliferation is what you want to happen to get neural stem cells to proliferate broadly.

I've took most of it in the past, just not together. But none of the stuff like sulforaphane and PQQ has helped with methylation.

If I did the mito protocol could I skip the sulforaphane?

And is this right?

Fission

1g nicotinamide
1g AAKG
20mg PQQ

Then I wait a day(?) before taking the fusion part which is

1g Lecithin
2g DHM
1g AAKG
20mg PQQ

And repeat again the next day?

[Kelvin]

If you don’t take the mito supplements at the same time they won’t work to remove methylation as effectively because AKG, PQQ, and nicotinamide are fast acting. Also you need PQQ to destroy damaged mitochondria that are harder to kill because of their epigenetic damage.

Yes you can use DHM as your only fusion promoter.

After a fission day you should have the fusion day 24 hours after fission.

Then you can repeat the fission day 24 hours after the previous fusion day.

[timedilation]

How are people's experiences running the protocol with different types of C60 oil?  C60-OO was the original, but more recently I've seen a growing number of products with C60-MCT and even C60-Avocado oil.  Is there any reason to think those could be better?  I think I recall reading that C60-MCT may be less photosensitive than C60-OO, but I can't say for sure.

[Repack Racing]

How are people's experiences running the protocol with different types of C60 oil?  C60-OO was the original, but more recently I've seen a growing number of products with C60-MCT and even C60-Avocado oil.  Is there any reason to think those could be better?  I think I recall reading that C60-MCT may be less photosensitive than C60-OO, but I can't say for sure.

 

timedilation,

 

Valid question.  It is my understanding (and belief) that OO is the best.  There is certainly more data on it.  Also, OO is very high in hydroxytyrosol, which seems to have some synergy with C60. If you think about MCT in particular, this is just companies trying to hop onto a fad, IMO. 

 

I'll be interested in other comments.

[Answers]

With the stem cell protocol,is it really necessary to do the fission for three days each time? I noticed that turnbuckle said you can skip it for the first month

[njurkovi]

With the stem cell protocol,is it really necessary to do the fission for three days each time? I noticed that turnbuckle said you can skip it for the first month

 

My understanding is that the basic schedule is 1 day of fusion followed by 2 days of fission. (BTW, I am starting my first 'set' on Monday, after doing mito protocol for about 2 weeks - hoping that doing this will lessen the strain of fission days).  Will report...

[Kelvin]

With the stem cell protocol,is it really necessary to do the fission for three days each time? I noticed that turnbuckle said you can skip it for the first month

You’re supposed to do 1 day of fusion + C60 then 2 days of fission.

You could do only 1 day of fission.

[Answers]

Thanks again.

I know you said to take 2g methionine and lysine but would 1 gram suffice? Or 2 grams with the c60 and 1 gram of each every 3 hours.

And sorry if I've asked a lot of questions

[njurkovi]

I think you can space them closely together. Stem cells mostly complete turning into new cells within 2 days so you can probably use the mito a protocol a day after you finish the 2nd fission day.

I have done the mito cycle a few days before and a few days after each C60 cycle with good effects.

One problem is that you may be depleted of methyl stores with all of that AKG consumption so you should probably take a break every couple of cycles and replenish your methyl stores with TMG.

 

Kelvin,

The schedule I intend to start on is M fusion, TW fission, weekly. Th-S are my off days. Is it OK to take TMG on those days (every couple of cycles as you suggest), or should there for some reason be a larger pause between taking TMG and the next fusion/fission/fission cycle?

Thanks

[njurkovi]

I was wondering if someone with more knowledge of biology/statistics could comment on Josh Mitteldorf's critique of methylation clocks (correlation vs causation).

 

https://joshmitteldo...-interventions/

 

[Kelvin]

Thanks again.

I know you said to take 2g methionine and lysine but would 1 gram suffice? Or 2 grams with the c60 and 1 gram of each every 3 hours.

And sorry if I've asked a lot of questions

Take 2 grams of methionine and lysine with the C60 then you could adjust it to a dose of your choosing whenever you feel sleepy.

[Kelvin]

Kelvin,
The schedule I intend to start on is M fusion, TW fission, weekly. Th-S are my off days. Is it OK to take TMG on those days (every couple of cycles as you suggest), or should there for some reason be a larger pause between taking TMG and the next fusion/fission/fission cycle?
Thanks

Excess methylation is not good either. To know if you need more methyl stores you can take 2 grams of TMG and see if it gives you an energy boost. If you don’t feel a change within 30 minutes that means you still have sufficient reserves and don’t need to take more TMG.

If you DO feel a boost in energy then that means you were probably short.

When I replenish my methyl stores after some mito or C60 rounds I am usually good after taking 2 grams TMG for only one day. I rarely feel tired enough that I need to take TMG on a second day.

Edited by Kelvin, 18 February 2023 - 02:37 AM.

[Answers]

Done three rounds of it with no effect but only did one day of fission. Using the purec60 capsules and I'm not sure it's going to help any damage at all or reverse any epigenetic changes if honest.

But is it possible to just do the C60/fusion and take the odd day off for fission? I want to try increasing stem cells quicker and speed things along to test this. Or do c60/fusion in the AM and fission in the PM?

If not I might just have to take the c60 alongside whatever else I have to take.

But taking supplements aimed at mitochondria has never had an effect on me,not positive anyway

[Kelvin]

You did three rounds of the C60 protocol or the mitochondrial protocol?

[Kelvin]

Done three rounds of it with no effect but only did one day of fission. Using the purec60 capsules and I'm not sure it's going to help any damage at all or reverse any epigenetic changes if honest.

But is it possible to just do the C60/fusion and take the odd day off for fission? I want to try increasing stem cells quicker and speed things along to test this. Or do c60/fusion in the AM and fission in the PM?

If not I might just have to take the c60 alongside whatever else I have to take.

But taking supplements aimed at mitochondria has never had an effect on me,not positive anyway

Fission + senolytics is needed to kill off damaged or old cells and make room for the new stem cells.

Why don’t you try 3 cycles of my mito protocol but add 500 mgs of Fisetin and 500 mgs of quercetin on the fission days of the mito protocol to create a senolytic effect that will kill many of the old or damaged cells you have. Then try another 2 rounds of the C60 cycle.

Also, could you list everything you are taking and how you are spacing things in terms of timing?

Edited by Kelvin, 21 February 2023 - 03:26 AM.

[Kelvin]

You haven’t tried the protocol with 5-HTP yet, right?