I used to take an extended release b complex, but stopped about 2 years ago because the supplement contained mega doses of the vitamins and I wasn't really sure if it was safe to take for a long period of time.
Anyway, my question is, is a b complex vitamin essential to a respectable nootropic stack? Subjectively, I lead a relatively stressful lifestyle that includes working, commuting to school five days a week, and doing p90x six days a week. Do the b complexes really have a big impact on stress mitigation and mental function, or is that just a bunch of marketing propoganda? I always hear mixed views.
Also, if it is important to take, is extended release or regular more advisable, and what dosages of each of the vitamins should be taken?
I just use it ocassionally, maybe once or twice a week, but I don't notice a big difference. In fact, when I took it regularly I got derealization. And follic acid supplementation can cause cancer (according to some studies) so moderation is the key.
I came to this forum because I've been experiencing a kind of cognitive decline for last 2-3 years. And it turns out that in my case this problem probably relates to "low blood oxygen". I don't have any medical training, so I understand that everything I say can be just nonsense.
I think that it's clear that have "low blood oxygen" isn't cool for your cognitive functioning. You can have "low blood oxygen" due to different reasons: less than the normal quantity of hemoglobin in the blood, decreased oxygen-binding ability of each hemoglobin molecule. In my case a doctor said that the view of my nails is clear sign of "low blood oxygen". And according to blood test my hemoglobin is normal but very close to low boundary of normal range. It's easy to imagine that at the same time I can have a bit decreased oxygen-binding ability of hemoglobin and as result - "low blood oxygen". My doctor thinks that my condition caused by deficiency of vitamin B-12. He thinks that overcoming this deficiency will raise hemoglobin level and solve the problem.
What I'm trying to say is that for some people b-complex can be exceptionally effective in improving cognitive functioning. And second point - on this forum most of the time things like 'optimal neurotransmitters levels' are discussed, but someone can have perfectly balanced levels of neurotransmitters and experiences problems with attention and memory due to "low blood oxygen" or something like that.
Wouldn't it be cool if an application exists which would get a blood test as input and warning like "We suppose that parameter X is too far from optimal level" where parameter X is something important for your brain functioning?
I took it for months and never noticed any benefit. I've actually seen several users on here advising AGAINST taking a b-complex. I've decided to drop it after no discernible benefit was noticed.
I say B vitamin is essential. As a vegetarian, I suffer noticeable brain fog and low energy when my B-12 levels are low.
Additionally, B vitamins are needed as part of the body's coping mechanism for stress. If you are low B vitamin, you are more likely to suffer from anxiety and high stress than normal.
Adequate zinc is required to metabolise B group itamins. Due to our copper plumbing, most people suffer from inadequate zinc levels (copper is antagonistic to zinc), leading to lower absoption of vitamin B from their diet.
I used to take an extended release b complex, but stopped about 2 years ago because the supplement contained mega doses of the vitamins and I wasn't really sure if it was safe to take for a long period of time.
Anyway, my question is, is a b complex vitamin essential to a respectable nootropic stack? Subjectively, I lead a relatively stressful lifestyle that includes working, commuting to school five days a week, and doing p90x six days a week. Do the b complexes really have a big impact on stress mitigation and mental function, or is that just a bunch of marketing propoganda? I always hear mixed views.
Also, if it is important to take, is extended release or regular more advisable, and what dosages of each of the vitamins should be taken?
The quality of each vitamin is crucial. Not all B vitamins are the same. All with varying degrees of bioavailability and toxicity. You get what you pay for. Cheap vitamins do nothing for you
Download the free Cron-o-meter program, and use it to track what you eat for several days. It will show what nutrients and vitamins you have been taking, and more importantly what you do need to supplement, if anything. Most will not need much if any aof the B vitamins as a supplement. A low dose multi, of which there are not many, will be more than adequate for most. The Vimmortal vitamin designed by our members is the best I have found so far.
There is also the factor of genetic variation. About 50% of the population carries the MTHFR genetic polymorphism, which means they cannot adequately convert folic acid to 5-methyl-hydroxyfolate, the active form of the vitamin. These people are much more prone to various cancers than the general population, and for them folic acid supplementation is counter-productive, or worse. When data on folic acid supplementation was re-analyzed taking this genetic variation into account, no correlation to folic acid supplementation was found. Such people do benefit from taking a particular form of folate: 5-MTHFR, of 5-methyl-tetra-hydrofolate. Solgar and Thorne are two companies that market this supplement. To find out if you have this genetic SNP, requires a genetic test such as that offered by 23andme, plus running the raw data through the Promethease program. Or one could try supplementing with tetrahydrofolate, and noting if there is some sign of improvement: it tends to function as an anti-depressant and the improvement in mood shuld be noticeable.
The Vimmortal vitamin designed by our members is the best I have found so far.
Beyond Health and Perque are two examples of other options for those that are concerned about consuming only the highest quality vitamins that your body can use. Vimmortal is great don't get me wrong but it's not the only show in town
Anything specific about the amount of B vitamins that trouble you? I know that higher levels of B Vitamins have been shown to decrease lung cancer risk. It is a water soluble vitamin anyhow. And if beta carotene is so bad maybe I should stop eating so much spinach :P
In contrast to preformed vitamin A, beta-carotene is not toxic even at high levels of intake. The body can form vitamin A from beta-carotene as needed, and there is no need to monitor intake levels, as there is with preformed vitamin A. Therefore, it is preferable to choose a multivitamin supplement that has all or the vast majority of its vitamin A in the form of beta-carotene; many multivitamin manufacturers have already reduced the amount of preformed vitamin A in their products. Smokers should avoid high-dose single supplements of beta-carotene, since some randomized trials in smokers have linked high dose supplementation with increased lung cancer risk. {}
@luca_toni: low oxygen? Take iron + vitamin c. No coffee.
My blood test says that iron level is ok. And I take vitamin c regularly. Anyway, thank you for reply.
My doctor prosecutes a kind of medical inquiry. I believe that results can be amazing. My height is 1.7 m. Five years ago my weight was 71-72 kg. Then it slowly dropped to 66 kg. After a while I decided to improve my diet by reducing sweets and ended up having weight 60.5 kg. My doc thinks that by some unknown reason I have malabsorption. Malabsorption causes weight loss and vitamin b12 deficiency. B12 deficiency causes low blood hemoglobin which causes low blood oxygen.
So if somebody here are - thin - have problems with memory and attention - feeling tired too often for your age - had good attention when you was a kid - often feeling dizziness then my expirience can be useful for you.
In contrast to preformed vitamin A, beta-carotene is not toxic even at high levels of intake. The body can form vitamin A from beta-carotene as needed, and there is no need to monitor intake levels, as there is with preformed vitamin A. Therefore, it is preferable to choose a multivitamin supplement that has all or the vast majority of its vitamin A in the form of beta-carotene; many multivitamin manufacturers have already reduced the amount of preformed vitamin A in their products. Smokers should avoid high-dose single supplements of beta-carotene, since some randomized trials in smokers have linked high dose supplementation with increased lung cancer risk. {}
but what if you're passive smoker or just live in a air-polluted area? isn't there increased lung cancer risk too?
I say B vitamin is essential. As a vegetarian, I suffer noticeable brain fog and low energy when my B-12 levels are low.
Additionally, B vitamins are needed as part of the body's coping mechanism for stress. If you are low B vitamin, you are more likely to suffer from anxiety and high stress than normal.
I would definitely concur with you in saying B vitamins play an active role in coping with stress. I started taking a 6 hour extended release b vitamin, and I can keep working, thinking, exercising, etc for longer without feeling the effects of stress slow me down just after 3 days of using it.
One question I still have is, knowing that its a water soluble vitamin, how fast does it run through the system? and does stress/exercise/etc really deplete it faster, or would it have left the body just as quickly as a waste product?
i highly reccomend you get a bioavailable b complex, you don't have to take the suggested dose every day, perhaps every other day you can take the suggested dose or instead get a pill splitter and take half per day.B vitamins can be a god send if you exercise a lot or are not able to absorb your vitamins for whatever reason, I also recommend you eat a high b vitamin diet as well.
Edited by Ampa-omega, 18 September 2011 - 01:35 AM.
A lot of B vitamin deficiencies come from tap water. Copper pipes leech into the tap water and get into your body via drinking / bathing. Copper 'throws out' zinc. Zinc is required to absorb B vitamins.
Anyway, my question is, is a b complex vitamin essential to a respectable nootropic stack?
The quickest answer is probably no. One can certainly benefit from nootropics without including a B supplement. However, it does belong in a second tier of nootropics: those which probably don't have much of an acute effect in most people, but are important for long-term general health, including that of the brain. As has already been said, taking a low-quality B-complex or full multi could be worse than taking none at all, but I would add that taking the wrong forms of vitamins, or amounts which are way too high, could be even worse.
Maxwatt's suggestion of using CRON-O-METER to check out your diet is fairly essential for this kind of long-term lifestyle/health management.
Anything specific about the amount of B vitamins that trouble you? I know that higher levels of B Vitamins have been shown to decrease lung cancer risk. It is a water soluble vitamin anyhow.
There's lots of previous discussions on the boards about the risks of high/mega-dose B vitamins. I don't have time to provide a bunch of links, but the most important points are that thiamine/benfotiamine and folate can accelerate the growth of cancers at certain concentrations, and B6 can cause neuropathy with prolonged usage even at fairly low dosages. A google site search with these keywords will provide no shortage of reading material, if you're interested in the finer points.
The study you cited concluded only that "above-median serum measures of both B6 and methionine, assessed on average 5 years prior to disease onset, are associated with a reduction of at least 50% on the risk of developing lung cancer." In the study of 400,000 people, this probably means those who are getting a fair amount from their diet (perhaps not even the RDA, still). Indeed, elevated levels of folate have been shown to increase the risk of lung cancer. In any event, it's important to read what a study actually says, as "high levels" cannot always be extrapolated to mean "the higher, the better."
Regardless of these finer points, the larger concern is the consumption of megadoses of vitamins in the absence of compelling benefits, or comprehensive safety data. Aside from B12, higher doses of the other B vitamins is somewhere between silly and dangerous. In this regard, the Vimmortal multi is really in a different class than the multis you posted, in terms of intelligence of design. It's not the only show in town, but its real competitors are the offerings from AOR, and perhaps LEF.
I say B vitamin is essential. As a vegetarian, I suffer noticeable brain fog and low energy when my B-12 levels are low.
Additionally, B vitamins are needed as part of the body's coping mechanism for stress. If you are low B vitamin, you are more likely to suffer from anxiety and high stress than normal.
Adequate zinc is required to metabolise B group itamins. Due to our copper plumbing, most people suffer from inadequate zinc levels (copper is antagonistic to zinc), leading to lower absoption of vitamin B from their diet.
Is it advisable to take B vitamins together w zinc? I know copper + zinc leads to zinc not being absorbed.
Also is it safe to take ritalin with B vitamins? or space it 1 hour apart?
@luca_toni: low oxygen? Take iron + vitamin c. No coffee.
My blood test says that iron level is ok. And I take vitamin c regularly. Anyway, thank you for reply.
My doctor prosecutes a kind of medical inquiry. I believe that results can be amazing. My height is 1.7 m. Five years ago my weight was 71-72 kg. Then it slowly dropped to 66 kg. After a while I decided to improve my diet by reducing sweets and ended up having weight 60.5 kg. My doc thinks that by some unknown reason I have malabsorption. Malabsorption causes weight loss and vitamin b12 deficiency. B12 deficiency causes low blood hemoglobin which causes low blood oxygen.
So if somebody here are
- thin
- have problems with memory and attention
- feeling tired too often for your age
- had good attention when you was a kid
- often feeling dizziness
then my expirience can be useful for you.
VITAMIN = VITAL AMINE. Read up on the history of vital amine discovery. Vitamin A was "found" first around 1912 if I remember correctly. Eat just one small sweet potato a day (I do it in the morning) and you will receive all the vitamin A you need. As for vitamin B (complex) there are about 30 different B's. Through the years some have dropped off the "list" and I suspect for evil reasons but that is my opinion from research. Today many of the old terminology are different from 40 or even 20 years ago. For instance: Essential Fatty Acids are now called Omega's. Each Omega has a complex of different "acids" or fats/lipids, it is NOT just one. Omega 3 is NOT just one lipid or fat. Omega 5 has recently been found to be very important for body fat mechanism, etc.
SO BACK to vitamin B's; LECITHIN for example: it contains three oil based (not water based) B vitamins; Inositol, Choline, Sterine? and other vitamin B factors. Lecithin is VERY important as +40% of our brain is lecithin and about 30% of our cells and neurons (nerves) are lecithin based...WOW. Lecithin requires a good amount of B-5 to be fully effective or bioavailable. B-15, the FDA got rid of from the USA market in the 1970's when Russia started using it with magnesium for memory improvement in their space programs and pilot training (they also made racetams / nootropics). B15, B16 & B17 were found by Dr. Krebbs and his son. They were put through hell as they tried to inform the public about their discovery and use against cancer cell division (cure cancer).
When you devour food, a good diet of variety, provided your gut is in good working condition and without Candida A. overgrowth, the small/large intestine will produce vitamin B12, as it is not found in plants (some, a super tiny amount) so B12 is gotten from mammals and fish and poultry (meats), as well as yeast conversion in the gut. Other vitamin B's are produced in the intestines from the food sources you consume (maybe). Since water soluble "vital amines" (B's, C) are quickly mobilized and utilized, they last about 90 minutes before the unused is transported to your kidneys and metabolized out through the urine. Gone.
Taking food supplements must be taken with food to get the full benefit. Not just once a day. If you take a B complex, maybe you are getting seven or nine of the B vitamins (maybe); see the label. This B complex should be taken in two or three moments throughout the day. I break mine in half (tablet) and take half of a tablet twice a day. The same with vitamin C, I take half of a one gram tablet twice a day usually. By taking vitamin supplements with a meal or some food, in small doses throughout the day, you will receive better nutrition at a reduced price. Taking one-a-day vitamins once a day is just urinating away the value and nutrition. Also vitamin B3, there are several of these, each is different, so I buy powdered niacin and niacinamide to get a balance there.
Vitamin B's are so important for your health and neurology, look at Choline for example, a neurotransmitter. I recommend that a person spend some time and read up on each vitamin B, even the ones not "recognized" as such any more. The time you spend on this small project will open your reasoning up to examine many interesting resolves to health and mental conditions AND it is very near impossible to over dose on water soluble vitamin. They just do not stick around long in the body. Vitamin B's were always referred to as the "nerve" vitamins years ago because thy are essential for good nervous system function and maintenance. Today we now know that the vitamin B's are essential for many additional functions as well.
Your gut / intestines regenerate about every three weeks. What? hey, you will always have feces because the intestines are renewing all the time. About 60% of ALL of your cells are in the intestines and 80% of your immune system is in your intestines. It is where the "rubber meets the road", where the nutrition happens. If you take a fairly good / great / vitamins; food supplements and DO NOT get results, you most likely have Candida albicans over growth, Helicobacter pylori infection and/or a poor functioning gut with parasites (probably). The first step in health maintenance is cleaning out the digestive system because if that system is not in good working condition you are wasting away good money. A good manner is to just get an Aloe vera plant and blend up a couple of inches (remove spines), drink that every night until the stool is no longer black and stinky (@ 5 to 7 nights) in the morning. Then buy some Kefir grains on Amazon or eBay for a few dollars and start drinking whey and Kefir that YOU make. Then start taking your food supplements. Brain fog, low energy and a host of conditions will be gone. The supplements will just keep you in fine tune, as your renewed digestive system will be processing the nutrition from the food you consume. Just eliminate sugars, soft carbohydrates (flour, corn, rice, potato, etc.), and you will be good to go. Your body will do the rest. Liver, fish, eggs, coconut oil, coconut water, avocado, vegetables, papaya, pineapple, & soups everyday and your body will normalize: blood pressure, glucose, weight, etc., etc. all in about 30 to 90 days.
I use websites like whfoods.com and nutritiondata.self.com to investigate the +- nutrients in food and I try to get a balance of vital amines (vitamins) from diet plus then do some over-kill with some supplements. Vitamin B is right there at the center of the stack, as ALL vitamins are essential for your health, even the ones they have taken out of the text books now. It all goes hand-in-hand. So Now You Know.
As for vitamin B (complex) there are about 30 different B's. Through the years some have dropped off the "list" and I suspect for evil reasons but that is my opinion from research. ...
B-15, the FDA got rid of from the USA market in the 1970's when Russia started using it with magnesium for memory improvement in their space programs and pilot training (they also made racetams / nootropics). B15, B16 & B17 were found by Dr. Krebbs and his son. They were put through hell as they tried to inform the public about their discovery and use against cancer cell division (cure cancer). ...
I use websites like whfoods.com and nutritiondata.self.com to investigate the +- nutrients in food and I try to get a balance of vital amines (vitamins) from diet plus then do some over-kill with some supplements. Vitamin B is right there at the center of the stack, as ALL vitamins are essential for your health, even the ones they have taken out of the text books now. It all goes hand-in-hand. So Now You Know.
Wikipedia lists the acknowledged 8 B-vitamins, and about 12 identifiable depreciated compounds:
Vitamin B11: pteryl-hepta-glutamic acid—chick growth factor, which is a form of folic acid. Later found to be one of five folates necessary for humans. ...
And taking B-complex vitamins at relatively high doses (compared what's possible from nutrition), how you make sure these depreciated B-vitamins, especially those not available as supplements, or maybe not even discovered yet - don't get depleted much faster and depleted?
As for vitamin B (complex) there are about 30 different B's. Through the years some have dropped off the "list" and I suspect for evil reasons but that is my opinion from research. ...
B-15, the FDA got rid of from the USA market in the 1970's when Russia started using it with magnesium for memory improvement in their space programs and pilot training (they also made racetams / nootropics). B15, B16 & B17 were found by Dr. Krebbs and his son. They were put through hell as they tried to inform the public about their discovery and use against cancer cell division (cure cancer). ...
I use websites like whfoods.com and nutritiondata.self.com to investigate the +- nutrients in food and I try to get a balance of vital amines (vitamins) from diet plus then do some over-kill with some supplements. Vitamin B is right there at the center of the stack, as ALL vitamins are essential for your health, even the ones they have taken out of the text books now. It all goes hand-in-hand. So Now You Know.
Wikipedia lists the acknowledged 8 B-vitamins, and about 12 identifiable depreciated compounds:
Vitamin B11: pteryl-hepta-glutamic acid—chick growth factor, which is a form of folic acid. Later found to be one of five folates necessary for humans. ...
And taking B-complex vitamins at relatively high doses (compared what's possible from nutrition), how you make sure these depreciated B-vitamins, especially those not available as supplements, or maybe not even discovered yet - don't get depleted much faster and depleted?
QUESTION: "Reply to how necessary is a B complex?"
ANSWER: Necessary in most all circumstances.
Vitamin B complex; these are vital and essential substances. If they are not attained from diet then many things will go wrong in the body and eventually a disease will take place. Most all circumstances? Few people have a diet with sufficient vitamin B's; all vitamin B's. Some vitamin B's are not easy to obtain in many foods today. Many people today do not have a digestive system in good working condition to utilize many vitamin B's. So again, taking a vitamin B complex may not have noticeable effects because very little is being used in the blood and metabolic systems.
Diet & gut health are the determining factors as well as gene variant:.
Genetic factors, especially variants in the MTHFR and COMT genes.
Methylation Cycle - a very important metabolic componant.
Somewhere around 50% of people have gene variants that preclude them from utilizing certain nutrients and therefore are always deficient in vitamin B9; folate, folic acid (there are five of these that make up the B9 "complex") AND vitamin B12 (again there are several varieties). Even injections of B12 may not have any effect for many people, those with a MTHFR gene variant.
These gene variants are behind why some people do not have the same experience, or the anticipated result, when taking certain substances that require the Methylation Cycle to metabolize.
Methylation, Health, and B-Vitamins
The same B-vitamins can affect different people in different (and even opposite) ways. These differences may have to do with a genetic predisposition to being a “fast methylator” or a “slow methylator.” Methylation is a process by which a molecule donates or accepts a methyl group (CH3). In biological systems DNA can be methylated, as well as proteins (lysine and arginine). One type of protein methylation — the transfer of methyl groups from SAMe to histones — affects epigenetic expression (the degree to which certain genes are turned on or off).
The degree of protein and DNA methylation in an organism profoundly affects numerous aspects of physiology, including prenatal development, growth, metabolic levels, ATP (energy) production, neurotransmitter levels, metabolism of heavy metals, and susceptibility to cancer. Problems with the methylation cycle may also be related to autism, mental illness, food allergies, asthma, and the development of heart disease.
Health Benefits of Vitamin B's
The B vitamins often work together to deliver a number of health benefits to the body. B vitamins have been shown to:
Bolster metabolism
Maintain healthy skin and muscle tone
Enhance immune and nervous system function
Promote cell growth and division — including that of the red blood cells that help prevent anemia
Together, they also help combat the symptoms and causes of stress, depression, and cardiovascular disease.
The effects of vitamins, even plain-old-regular multivitamins, are not trivial.
This study;http://cancerres.aac...t/70/2/568.full , found that regular multivitamin intake reduced lung-cancer risk in former and current smokers by 43%, and that that risk reduction was associated with the methylated state of eight different genes (p16, MGMT, DAPK, RASSF1A, GATA4, GATA5, PAX5α, and PAX5β) involved in tumor suppression (adequate folate prevents these genes from becoming hypermethylated/turned off). Eating green leafy vegetables and/or other highly pigmented fruits and vegetables also provided a more modest protective effect.
This study;, http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/12163689, also found associations between folate and methionine levels and hypermethylation of the RASSF1A and MTHFR genes (also related to cancer suppression).
This study; http://astonjournals...8_Vol2010.pdf, found that hypermethylation of the MGMT gene was implicated in prostate cancer and was strongly associated with meat-eating and smoking, and less so with alcohol consumption.
Vitamin B and mental health
Carl Pfeiffer was a pharmacologist who studied schizophrenia, manic-depression, and other forms of mental illness. Along with Abram Hoffer, he co-founded the field of orthomolecular psychiatry. He hypothesized that most people suffering from mental illness could be categorized into one of the following three groups:
“Histapenic” (low-histamine) individuals exhibited the following:
low blood histamine
high (toxic) copper levels
low levels of zinc and manganese
low levels of folate and/or B12
high levels of homocysteine
slower metabolic rates (higher body fat)
These patients tended to suffer from paranoid schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, psychosis, anxiety/panic attacks, hallucinations, hyperactivity, and depression (the latter especially in older patients). Pfeiffer found that these people often benefited from large doses of folic acid, B12, B3, B6, zinc, and manganese.
“Histadelic” (high histamine) individuals exhibited the following:
high blood histamine and basophil counts
normal or low copper levels
low levels of homocysteine
higher metabolic rates (lower body fat)
These patients tended to suffer from depression, compulsions (like OCD), addictions (gambling/shopping/sex/alcohol, etc.), eating disorders (anorexia/bulimia), and phobias. They reacted badly to folate — even dietary folate in fresh vegetables could worsen their depression (dubbed “salad bowl depression” by Pfeiffer). They responded well to methionine and calcium supplements.
“Pyroluric” (pyroluria) individuals exhibited the following:
excrete large quantities of kryptopyrrole in urine
low levels of zinc and B6
“sweet/fruity” body odor/breath
pale skin, inability to tan
This condition, which could overlap with either of the other two or exist on its own, was associated with anxiety, depression, food sensitivities/celiac disease, social withdrawal, learning disabilities/ADHD, and autism. More severe cases resulted in mental retardation and delayed growth and puberty. In some cases psychological symptoms could be alleviated within just a few days with supplemental B6 and zinc.
“Histapenic” (low histamine) types are “over-methylators.” They tend to have higher methyl to folate ratios, which can result in the overproduction of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin (via the BH4 rate-controlling process in catecholamine synthesis). These types can benefit greatly from increased dietary and supplemental folate, B12, and other nutrients. Here’s Dr. Walsh describing over-methylators on youtube;
“Histadelic” (high histamine) types are “under-methylators.” They have low methyl to folate ratios, which can result in lower levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. These types can benefit from supplemental methionine, SAMe, and inositol (methyl donors). Here’s Dr. Walsh describing under-methylators;
The third type, “Pyroluria”, is a genetic disorder which increases B6 and zinc urinary excretion, resulting in deficiencies of both nutrients and increased oxidative stress. Here’s Dr. Walsh describing pyroluria;
I came to this forum because I've been experiencing a kind of cognitive decline for last 2-3 years. And it turns out that in my case this problem probably relates to "low blood oxygen". I don't have any medical training, so I understand that everything I say can be just nonsense.
I think that it's clear that have "low blood oxygen" isn't cool for your cognitive functioning. You can have "low blood oxygen" due to different reasons: less than the normal quantity of hemoglobin in the blood, decreased oxygen-binding ability of each hemoglobin molecule. In my case a doctor said that the view of my nails is clear sign of "low blood oxygen". And according to blood test my hemoglobin is normal but very close to low boundary of normal range. It's easy to imagine that at the same time I can have a bit decreased oxygen-binding ability of hemoglobin and as result - "low blood oxygen". My doctor thinks that my condition caused by deficiency of vitamin B-12. He thinks that overcoming this deficiency will raise hemoglobin level and solve the problem.
What I'm trying to say is that for some people b-complex can be exceptionally effective in improving cognitive functioning. And second point - on this forum most of the time things like 'optimal neurotransmitters levels' are discussed, but someone can have perfectly balanced levels of neurotransmitters and experiences problems with attention and memory due to "low blood oxygen" or something like that.
Wouldn't it be cool if an application exists which would get a blood test as input and warning like "We suppose that parameter X is too far from optimal level" where parameter X is something important for your brain functioning?
LUCA_TONI:
Did you get a resolve on your "low blood oxygen"? It has been over four years since your post and maybe this is not going to get to you. I am interested to know if you got relief and what was the resolve.
Low red blood cells count but within "normal" range? Hummm. Did you doctor look into the quality of your blood cells, if they are forming plaque like accumulations, bunching up and sticking together (thick blood). Do you have a varied diet of vegetables, what was going on with your diet?
Probable deficiency in vitamin B12; did your doctor actually test you for this? I already sent information on the condition that would likely cause vitamin B12, as well as Folate, Folic Acid, deficiency. Was that ever checked?
And taking B-complex vitamins at relatively high doses (compared what's possible from nutrition), how you make sure these depreciated B-vitamins, especially those not available as supplements, or maybe not even discovered yet - don't get depleted much faster?
So there you go. Vitamin B's are necessary.
So you also don't have an answer to my question: How to make sure depreciated B-Vitamins don't get depleted by supplementing higher than dietary doses of recognized B-Vitamins?
And taking B-complex vitamins at relatively high doses (compared what's possible from nutrition), how you make sure these depreciated B-vitamins, especially those not available as supplements, or maybe not even discovered yet - don't get depleted much faster?
So there you go. Vitamin B's are necessary.
So you also don't have an answer to my question: How to make sure depreciated B-Vitamins don't get depleted by supplementing higher than dietary doses of recognized B-Vitamins?
pamojja:
I have an answer to your question. I was answering the question of this threat title though; "is vitamin B necessary?", which by definition of a vitamin is, YES, these vitamins are necessary.
Your question, as well as most questions posted throughout this thread, are not answerable as presented. There are too many key factors / questions to be answered concerning a persons genetics, genome, health status, on and on. BUT there is hope, it costs money though. If you really want the answer to the question you have, I would get a hair analysis and a nutritional panel analysis, both should cost about $100 each or more. Then you would know what your current level of vitamins and other nutritional factors are currently. Then supplement your diet with whole food or purchased concentrates to make up for deficiencies (of minerals and vitamins). All of the micro nutrients play into the picture of whole health and deficiencies; besides life style, nutrition/diet, sleep, exercise, and stresses..
As you are probably aware, vitamin B's require a "balance" in normal healthy individuals. If more of one or two of them are taken over a period of time, over the "normal" amount recognized as normal, then some of the other vitamin B's will not function correctly or the pathways they influence. So, if your analysis indicates deficiencies, then other vitamin B's are probably out-of-whack also until brought to normal levels by supplementation of those showing deficient.
23andme.com offers a comprehensive genome analysis for about $100. This will tell you specifically about factors that influence your health and nutritional bio-availability that you will not be able to determine without. You will find if you are unable to use vitamin B12, B9 and others and then you would be able to work around that by supplementing with nutrients specific to your needs. Also you might check out cronometer.com, a downloadable and an online real time monitoring tool of your nutrition. That is a free great help.
A quick and dirty answer to your question might be: do not over supplement with any of the vitamin B's as this will definitively cause further deficiencies (of unknown vitamin B's), including substances yet known to us. Hummm, not a very encouraging answer...but the truth.
I came to this forum because I've been experiencing a kind of cognitive decline for last 2-3 years. And it turns out that in my case this problem probably relates to "low blood oxygen". I don't have any medical training, so I understand that everything I say can be just nonsense.
I think that it's clear that have "low blood oxygen" isn't cool for your cognitive functioning. You can have "low blood oxygen" due to different reasons: less than the normal quantity of hemoglobin in the blood, decreased oxygen-binding ability of each hemoglobin molecule. In my case a doctor said that the view of my nails is clear sign of "low blood oxygen". And according to blood test my hemoglobin is normal but very close to low boundary of normal range. It's easy to imagine that at the same time I can have a bit decreased oxygen-binding ability of hemoglobin and as result - "low blood oxygen". My doctor thinks that my condition caused by deficiency of vitamin B-12. He thinks that overcoming this deficiency will raise hemoglobin level and solve the problem.
What I'm trying to say is that for some people b-complex can be exceptionally effective in improving cognitive functioning. And second point - on this forum most of the time things like 'optimal neurotransmitters levels' are discussed, but someone can have perfectly balanced levels of neurotransmitters and experiences problems with attention and memory due to "low blood oxygen" or something like that.
Wouldn't it be cool if an application exists which would get a blood test as input and warning like "We suppose that parameter X is too far from optimal level" where parameter X is something important for your brain functioning?
LUCA_TONI:
Did you get a resolve on your "low blood oxygen"? It has been over four years since your post and maybe this is not going to get to you. I am interested to know if you got relief and what was the resolve.
Low red blood cells count but within "normal" range? Hummm. Did you doctor look into the quality of your blood cells, if they are forming plaque like accumulations, bunching up and sticking together (thick blood). Do you have a varied diet of vegetables, what was going on with your diet?
Probable deficiency in vitamin B12; did your doctor actually test you for this? I already sent information on the condition that would likely cause vitamin B12, as well as Folate, Folic Acid, deficiency. Was that ever checked?
Yes, I got resolve on "low blood oxygen". B12 in form of cyanocobalamin or hydroxocobalamin is ultimate solution for me. After B12 was introduced I experienced objective improvements (haemoglobin went up, WBC returned within norm, before it was lower than min), subjective improvements(full of energy, sharp focus). Unfortunately for me after discontinuation of B12 all subjective positive effects immediately faded, objective improvements faded not that quick but they faded too.
No, my doctor didn't check the quality of my blood cells. My diet is more or less fine.
"Probable deficiency in vitamin B12; did your doctor actually test you for this?"
Blood test for B12 was within normal range at the time although a bit too close to min. It quickly rose after introduction of oral B12 but it seems that for proper functioning my body needs daily injections of B12. Although B12 was very effective for me(high effectiveness is kind of atypical to my knowledge) eventually I developed some nasty side effects(side effects with B12 is also atypical to my knowledge).
If you are interested more details regarding my case can be found here.
I'm planning to sequence my exome in near future. Hope to find something interesting.
very any vitamin your body does not store in high capacity i would supplement even though b12 is stored in high amount its nothing compared to fat soluble vitamins
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