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PQQ vs. Idebenone

pqq idebenone

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#1 computeTHIS

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:48 AM


I previously reported my experiences with Idebenone here:
http://www.longecity...line-idebenone/

I decided to try PQQ (pyrroloquinoline quinone) after reading a bit about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PQQ

I still do not respond to Idebenone like I did for the first 4 days of its use. After trying PQQ for the first time today I would say that its action is much smoother than Idebenone. It packed an incredible punch though. After taking it around 10am this morning (without food) I felt incredible energy for the whole day. It was much like my first dose of Idebenone, with enhanced feelings of emphathy, clarity of thought, and creativity. The smoothness of PQQ allowed me to stay focused better throughout the entire day, whereas Idebenone was almost too energetically stimulating.

I feel as though I had a terrific day today and I can't think of anything special that happened.

So far I would prefer the action of PQQ over Idebenone, the test is if tolerance builds as quickly as Idebenone did. If tolerance is an issue, it may be beneficial to cycle between PQQ and Idebenone for various periods.
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#2 hamishm00

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:17 AM

You're the first person I've come across who describes PQQ as "smooth" or packing some kind of punch.

I notice nothing at all whatsoever with PQQ, so I'm jealous!

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#3 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:54 AM

Have you tried methylene blue and have any idea how they compare?

#4 DukeNukem

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:52 AM

I never notice anything taking supplements, include PPQ daily. I'm jealous of people who feel an effect.

#5 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:08 AM

I never notice anything taking supplements, include PPQ daily. I'm jealous of people who feel an effect.

Well i feel them because of a underlying pathology and focussing what supplements help that, that said Q10 analogues are part of the rare supplements that are potent enough to give people noticable benefits, other examples are nefiracetam, cerebrolysin and methylene blue.

#6 nupi

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:12 AM

I never notice anything taking supplements, include PPQ daily. I'm jealous of people who feel an effect.



While I can't say I feel anything from most supplements (definitely nothing from mega dose B that are supposed to be anxiolytic or little to nothing from MgCitrate), the adaptogens definitely have a noticeable (if subtle) impact.

Sometimes I feel like people (myself included) are reading this forum, interpret posts like this in the way oy you can get high from this and then are totally disappointed if those extreme effects do not appear.

#7 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:15 AM

It also highly depends on the moa of certain supplements in a stack, for example youd more likely feel an effect if you focus on substances that are cholinergic and have a synergetic effect.

#8 nupi

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:26 AM

It also highly depends on the moa of certain supplements in a stack, for example youd more likely feel an effect if you focus on substances that are cholinergic and have a synergetic effect.


Can't say I notice much if anything from stacking ALCAR and Alpha-GPC. Kind of on the fence on whether I am gonna buy anymore of that...

I think there are three things in my stack that I feel (placebo or not): Wellbutrin (not really a supplement), Ashwagandha and Bacopa (no obvious effects on memory so far, though). Oh and caffeine, obviously.

EPA/DHA I don't feel, but I think it has improved my skin ever so slightly.

#9 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:31 AM

Stack methylene blue and aniracetam with them, i'm pretty sure that will be enough for noticable results, in my case its nefiracetam and methylene blue synergizing, now im cycling noopept im noticing less. Without those racetams i only felt minimal effects of methylene blue, now it causes alot of clarity if i take it.

I dont notice health promoting sups like curcumin and resveratrol. Im waiting till i have more synergetic supplements before i make a judgement of a certain supplement, as an example a choline source may not give you much benefits now, but it could have major benefits with uridine for example.

#10 nupi

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:36 AM

I dont think I want to go the MB route - I travel a lot and unless I could get ahold of it in pill form it's not going to help much. Furthermore, I am somewhat worried about the implicated MAOI while on Wellbutrin.

For similar reasons I will try to get proper Nootropil on prescription because customs do not look too kindly on people bringing in prescription drugs (it's prescription in most of Europe) without one...

#11 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:57 AM

I sometimes asked a script for piracetam but its not very cost effective, even nefiracetam and prami are cheaper online. If you dont want methylene blue Q10 analogues are still atractive but weaker alternatives, also methylene blue works acutely it can be used as needed too.

#12 nupi

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:53 AM

The upside with Nootropil is that it is known quality plus more than likely covered by my insurance

#13 computeTHIS

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:17 PM

You're the first person I've come across who describes PQQ as "smooth" or packing some kind of punch.

I notice nothing at all whatsoever with PQQ, so I'm jealous!

Sometimes it depends on taking it with/without food, I'm not yet sure what gives PQQ the best bio-availability in the body. PQQ could also have synergies (or amplified effects) with things like ALCAR, CoQ10, and substances or activities that normally increase your body's metabolism. Caffeine seems to have some synergy with it today - I normally get caffeine tremors or "caffeine crash", and instead I've had nothing but focus and energy. PQQ should complement the positive effects of exercise.

Have you tried methylene blue and have any idea how they compare?

No, I never jumped on the MB bandwagon, and as far as I can tell MB and PQQ have completely different mechanisms of action. Is MB supposed to affect BDNF or cellular health in any way? I already take an MAO-B inhibitor, Selegiline. If I feel that I need to increase serotonin levels I find that 5-HTP works very well, I would rather not use MAO-A inhibitors.

I never notice anything taking supplements, include PPQ daily. I'm jealous of people who feel an effect.

This could also mean that you are a perfectly healthy individual and most supplements have little benefits for you, lucky you! It never hurts to take things for cellular protection though. If you're looking for some (temporary) mental "edge" though, the 'racetams or things affecting your choline uptake might be what you're looking for. Huperzine A does this for me sometimes.

#14 longevitynow

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:24 AM

I love CoQ10, it has done wonders for my gums. I've taken it off and on for over 20 years. Most people think I look years younger than my age (or they see me and they look like they have aged much more than me). I've juiced (veggies not amphets) for years and do lots of other things too. But I don't really notice an effect when I take CoQ10 (but gums bleed if I don't). Idebenone-probably good for me but don't notice it. CoQ10, been around forever, long track record, millions of users, probably pretty safe and not very likely to have unknown negative side-effects. These other things we are taking, many of them anyway, what are the long-term consequences?? Curious about the PQQ and eager to try it. Aubrey de Grey says mitochondrial dysfunction/decay is maybe the cause of 50% of aging. I think idebenone has a very different mechanism of action than PQQ. Both are good for your mitochondria, but I'm not necessarily convinced idebenone has any benefits beyond CoQ10 (ubiquinine or ubiquinol).

#15 nito

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

I previously reported my experiences with Idebenone here:
http://www.longecity...line-idebenone/

I decided to try PQQ (pyrroloquinoline quinone) after reading a bit about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PQQ

I still do not respond to Idebenone like I did for the first 4 days of its use. After trying PQQ for the first time today I would say that its action is much smoother than Idebenone. It packed an incredible punch though. After taking it around 10am this morning (without food) I felt incredible energy for the whole day. It was much like my first dose of Idebenone, with enhanced feelings of emphathy, clarity of thought, and creativity. The smoothness of PQQ allowed me to stay focused better throughout the entire day, whereas Idebenone was almost too energetically stimulating.

I feel as though I had a terrific day today and I can't think of anything special that happened.

So far I would prefer the action of PQQ over Idebenone, the test is if tolerance builds as quickly as Idebenone did. If tolerance is an issue, it may be beneficial to cycle between PQQ and Idebenone for various periods.


You got it from swanson right? So did you get this one http://www.swansonvi...E083/ItemDetail?

#16 computeTHIS

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:35 AM

I previously reported my experiences with Idebenone here:
http://www.longecity...line-idebenone/

I decided to try PQQ (pyrroloquinoline quinone) after reading a bit about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PQQ

I still do not respond to Idebenone like I did for the first 4 days of its use. After trying PQQ for the first time today I would say that its action is much smoother than Idebenone. It packed an incredible punch though. After taking it around 10am this morning (without food) I felt incredible energy for the whole day. It was much like my first dose of Idebenone, with enhanced feelings of emphathy, clarity of thought, and creativity. The smoothness of PQQ allowed me to stay focused better throughout the entire day, whereas Idebenone was almost too energetically stimulating.

I feel as though I had a terrific day today and I can't think of anything special that happened.

So far I would prefer the action of PQQ over Idebenone, the test is if tolerance builds as quickly as Idebenone did. If tolerance is an issue, it may be beneficial to cycle between PQQ and Idebenone for various periods.


You got it from swanson right? So did you get this one http://www.swansonvi...E083/ItemDetail?

Yep, that was like the only brand I've found.

The affects I observe with PQQ are how it allows me to be more easily stimulated in different situations. If I'm sitting and doing mostly nothing, for example, it's difficult to observe any effect. It's had a lasting anxiolytic effect, I feel incredible social confidence. I've experienced an ungodly high libido today and yesterday, and PQQ is the only thing that I've added to my regimen.

#17 rwac

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

Yep, that was like the only brand I've found.


There's another brand VitaPQQ which is a touch cheaper if you take 20mg/day.
Available on amazon and maybe other places.

#18 thedevinroy

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:50 AM

In PPQ's defense, it is a natural substance that does not seem to interact with Methylene Blue. Trumps Idebenone in my list of things to try.

#19 Erstwhile

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:23 AM

A quick question: How do you dose PQQ?

#20 JChief

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:27 AM

10-20mg per day is the usual dose.

#21 Erstwhile

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:44 AM

10-20mg per day is the usual dose.

Thanks!

#22 nupi

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

The affects I observe with PQQ are how it allows me to be more easily stimulated in different situations. If I'm sitting and doing mostly nothing, for example, it's difficult to observe any effect. It's had a lasting anxiolytic effect, I feel incredible social confidence. I've experienced an ungodly high libido today and yesterday, and PQQ is the only thing that I've added to my regimen.


Here's to hoping the Idebenone I just ordered from iHerb will do the same - if not, I will give PQQ a try (if I can get it from anywhere)...

#23 JChief

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:11 AM

The affects I observe with PQQ are how it allows me to be more easily stimulated in different situations. If I'm sitting and doing mostly nothing, for example, it's difficult to observe any effect. It's had a lasting anxiolytic effect, I feel incredible social confidence. I've experienced an ungodly high libido today and yesterday, and PQQ is the only thing that I've added to my regimen.


Here's to hoping the Idebenone I just ordered from iHerb will do the same - if not, I will give PQQ a try (if I can get it from anywhere)...


It would be great if you gave us all a good report! The thread I started the other day has been curiously silent on the matter ;) I am very curious about idebenone. Especially considering the price. PQQ is on my list of supplements to add in the near future.

#24 noos

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:31 PM

Anyone have compared idebenone to CoQ10? Maybe idebenone is more convenient for me due to price/effect.

#25 computeTHIS

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:26 PM

The affects I observe with PQQ are how it allows me to be more easily stimulated in different situations. If I'm sitting and doing mostly nothing, for example, it's difficult to observe any effect. It's had a lasting anxiolytic effect, I feel incredible social confidence. I've experienced an ungodly high libido today and yesterday, and PQQ is the only thing that I've added to my regimen.


Here's to hoping the Idebenone I just ordered from iHerb will do the same - if not, I will give PQQ a try (if I can get it from anywhere)...


It would be great if you gave us all a good report! The thread I started the other day has been curiously silent on the matter ;) I am very curious about idebenone. Especially considering the price. PQQ is on my list of supplements to add in the near future.

I linked a thread at the top of this post with my experience. I'm not exactly finished testing Idebenone, I'm going to try it again after an extended trial of PQQ to see if there's any comparison.

Anyone have compared idebenone to CoQ10? Maybe idebenone is more convenient for me due to price/effect.

As far as I know, no one has reported nootropic effects with CoQ10. As far as the mitochondrial supplements go, Idebenone is probably the strongest "feeling" one out there. That is, until tolerance built up for me.

#26 trance

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:35 PM

The affects I observe with PQQ are how it allows me to be more easily stimulated in different situations. If I'm sitting and doing mostly nothing, for example, it's difficult to observe any effect. It's had a lasting anxiolytic effect, I feel incredible social confidence. I've experienced an ungodly high libido today and yesterday, and PQQ is the only thing that I've added to my regimen.

Here's to hoping the Idebenone I just ordered from iHerb will do the same - if not, I will give PQQ a try (if I can get it from anywhere)...


Get it at the same place ...

http://www.iherb.com...yrroloquinoline

#27 X_Danny_X

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:15 PM

man pqq is not cheap. it is only 30 capsules. which stores will have PQQ? i tried Vitamin Shopp and they dont have it.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 02 December 2011 - 11:23 PM.


#28 nupi

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:40 AM

Must have overlooked that. It's even pricier than Idebenone per dose...

#29 thedevinroy

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:24 PM

Expensive stuff but that seems to be the only complaint. I was looking through all the reviews on iherb.

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/25980?at=0

Guess people like that brand.

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#30 thedevinroy

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 01:30 PM

By the way, according to http://pyrroloquinol.../pqq-rich-food/ ...

Celery has the most PQQ per 100g. It's about 6.3mcg per 100g (about 3.6 oz). In order to get 10mg from celery, you would have to consume about 160 kg (350 pounds) of celery. So for all of you complaining about how expensive it is, realize that the dose you are taking is absolutely massive and unnecessary.





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