143 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

http://www.newscient...ting-drunk.html

Liang first tested whether DHM blocks the clumsiness and loss of coordination caused by drinking too much. To do this, she measured how long it took for treated rats to right themselves after being laid on their backs in a V-shaped cradle.
After she injected rats' abdomens with a dose of alcohol proportionate to the amount a human would get from downing 15 to 20 beers in 2 hours by a human, they took about 70 minutes, on average, to right themselves. However, when an injection of the same amount of booze included a milligram of DHM per kilogram of rat body weight, the animals recovered their composure within just 5 minutes.
DHM also stopped rats in a maze from behaving in ways resembling anxiety and hangovers. Rats given heavy doses of alcohol cowered away in corners of the maze, whereas those given the extract with their alcohol behaved normally and were as inquisitive as rats given no alcohol at all, exploring the more open corridors of the maze.
Finally, DHM appeared to discourage rats from boozing when they had a free choice between drinking a sweetened solution of alcohol or sweetened water. Over a period of three months, rats will normally get addicted to increasing volumes of the hard stuff. Rats given DHM, though, drank no more than about a quarter of the amount that the "boozers" eventually built up to. Moreover, boozy rats that had worked up to the higher levels suddenly dropped down to a moderate intake when given DHM after seven weeks.
All the benefits of DHM were lost instantly when Liang also gave the rats a drug called flumazenil, which is known to block receptors in the brain for a neurotransmitter called gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA). According to Liang, this proved that DHM works by stopping alcohol from accessing the same receptors. This, she says, explains why DHM kept the rats sober even when they had huge amounts of alcohol in their blood.
Good idea?

"This supports other data that GABA receptors are key in the actions of alcohol and that targeting this interaction is a viable approach to reducing alcohol intake," says David Nutt of Imperial College London, former head of the British government's advisory committee on drugs. "Let's hope it's safe to use in humans."

[boff]

I just read the same article. Looks interesting. From what I can tell the substance has been actively extracted by several Chinese pharma/botanicals companies for some years, Presumably for use in chinese medicine. None of the sites made reference to the effects noted in the New Scientist article. Here is a typical claim:

1)Clearing the free radical in body and antioxidation: The vine tea extract can effectively level down the lipid peroxidation. It can prevent the oxidative damage of antioxidase in body caused by the free radical. Then it can improve the oxidation resistance of the human body;

2)Antibiotic Action: The vine tea extract has the strong inhibitory action of staphylococcus aureus and Bacillus subtilis. It also has inhibitory action of Aspergillus flavus, Aspergillus niger, penicillium and Alternaria. Dihydromyricetin has the inhibitory action of Staphylococcus aureus, Staphylococcus aureus(S. aureus) and Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

3)Protecting the Liver: Dihydromyricetin has the strong inhibitory action of the rise of ALT and AST in the blood Serum. It can low the total bilirubin in the blood serum. So it has the strong action of lowing the aminotransferase and jaundice. The vine tea extract can restrain the liver fibrosis in the rat.

4)Reducing the levels of blood sugar and blood fat: Dihydromyricetin can reduce the blood fat levels in the mouse. It can decrease the damage to liver cells caused by the high blood fat levels and improve the antioxidation ability. At the same time, it can low the levels of high blood sugar.

5)Anti-inflammation: The vine tea extract can effectively restrain the mouse pinna swelling caused by xylene. It can also restrain the writhing response in the mouse caused by acetic acid.

6)Anti-tumor: The vine tea extract has effective restrain to cell proliferation of some tumor cells.


I have got a quote for 100g of the stuff. US$170 delivered (to Australia). Might consider trying it out. I'm not a big drinker, but when I do drink I occasionally 'binge' and would love to be able to take something when I get home to sober up with and kill the hangover. Definitely would not take this before going out.

Edited by boff, 10 January 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[MrHappy]

Well, the article was talking about injecting the rats at 1mg/Kg, but allowing for allometric scaling, that'd be more like .25mg/Kg, so for a typical human, a 15-20mg injection.

Oral routes are normally 10x the dose requirement, so that'd be 150-200mg, which doesn't seem unreasonable. I'd love to confirm the dosages used by Chinese practitioners to see if this is in range.

[manic_racetam]

I used to buy this herbal alcohol remedy when I lived in China. It was pretty expensive stuff in comparison to other medicine but that stuff worked amazingly well. I'd take 2 pills before drinking as the box suggested and no matter how much I drank I could not get intoxicated. I had similar side effects in my body from the excessive alcohol consumption, like impotence for example, but my head was clear and my balance wasn't off at all.

It always felt intuitively like a bad idea to drink that much and not experience any intoxication... I just felt uneasy about it but it was useful for staying alert while working in the bar where I was drinking really heavily. I've always wondered what was in those little brown pills but this may be exactly what it was! Good find Mr.Happy

[earcaraxe]

It's clearly a GABA-ergetic drug, especially as shown in http://research.medn...l?rad_id=221389

Does anyone have any experience with this extract as a nootropic when sober? Any theories as to if it'd even work?

It's an extract from a plant, so it'd be covered under the DSHEA to stock and sell here in the US as a supplement.

[Adamzski]

This is very interesting, any more info?

[kevinseven11]

I bet this can counteract more than just alcohol intoxication. Marijuana intoxication is influenced alot by GABA as well.

[Junk Master]

If you counteract intoxication, what's the point of drinking? Do you mean counteract the negatives while keeping the positives-- social "lubrication," anxiety/stress relief, euphoria.

[gizmobrain]

Just some info I found:

Dihydromyricetin = Ampelopsin

Found in:
Hovenia dulcis = "oriental raisin tree", "Japanese raisin tree"
Catha edulis = "khat"
Cayratia trifolia

BTW, I do not recommend inhibiting the negative effects of intoxication. They are there so that you stop drinking when it becomes unsafe. The title is a bit of a misnomer... it's not blocking intoxication in a way that allows you to drink without your body being effected by the alcohol. Your liver still has to deal with it; you still become dehydrated; you will still have a hangover. It would, however, keep you from getting sleepy, slurring your speech, and falling down. But I suspect that GABA agonism is what many people actually enjoy about drinking...

I am just more interested in what it tells us about inhibiting the effects of GABA on sober people.

Edited by zrbarnes, 11 June 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[medievil]

If you counteract intoxication, what's the point of drinking? Do you mean counteract the negatives while keeping the positives-- social "lubrication," anxiety/stress relief, euphoria.

I was wondering exactly the same.

[gizmobrain]

I don't think the point of the study was to figure out a way to be able to drink without becoming intoxicated. I think it was to establish how much of the effects of alcohol are related to GABA agonism, which the study successfully established.

[searchfunction]

If you counteract intoxication, what's the point of drinking? Do you mean counteract the negatives while keeping the positives-- social "lubrication," anxiety/stress relief, euphoria.

From that article,

Other' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21337-chinese-tree-extract-stops-rats-getting-drunk.html']Other alcohol experts fear that the availability of a "sobriety pill" could encourage more, not less drinking. Markus Heilig, clinical director of the US National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism in Bethesda, Maryland, says that Roche abandoned development of a similar compound called Ro15-4513. There was a lot of philosophical worry that an 'alcohol antidote' would entice people to consume alcohol and then count on being able to terminate the intoxicating effects on demand

→ source (external link)

I could see this as being one of the few reasons. I do not agree with such a use being a bad thing; there would be many less related fatalities for one. Use of such a drug as an 'antidote' only would avoid poisonings. Most people drink for the intoxicating effects and therefore persisting intoxication is actually a positive outcome for them, except when driving. However, this article cites co-administration of alcohol and DHM, not treatment afterwards.


Looking at the drug effects, I was surprised to see that flumazenil, DHM, and Ro15-4513 are all negative allosteric modulators, yet flumazenil blocks the effects of the latter two. The following may be of note:

It is thought that Ro15-4513 antagonizes the effects of ethanol because the azido group at the 8- position of the benzene ring blocks the binding site for ethanol on the α4β3δ subtype of the GABAA receptor; flumazenil, which has a fluorine at this position, does not block this binding site and so does not counteract the effects of ethanol.

[Junk Master]

Where's the study on an OTC supplement that makes me thinner and smarter the more I drink?

[gizmobrain]

Where's the study on an OTC supplement that makes me thinner and smarter the more I drink?

Cocaine?

Edited by zrbarnes, 11 June 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[Adamzski]

Coke is a great sup for sales people

[maxwatt]

Coke was ubiquitous on the trading floor of a place I used to work. But many of the traders were still fat. Too many hamburgers for breakfast.

As for dihydro-myricetin, and the herb it is extracted from (tea vine or raisin tree): the herb is an ingredient in many Chinese Hangover or anti-drunkeness pills. I have used a myricetin extract, which seems to have similar effects to dihydro-myricetin, but perhaps a larger dose may be needed. No nootropic effect while sober. Useful to keep a clear head while playing poker with opponents who are trying to drink you under the table.

[MrHappy]

Thanks to manic_racetam: http://buydhm.com

[Elus]

1. How much of this stuff is needed to counteract a certain amount of alcohol? How much would be needed to neutralize 3-4 beers in 2 hours?


2. Has anyone tried purchasing from the above supplier? I've found another source on amazon but I don't know if it's legit.

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B004XK35ZU

And one here that seems to sell in bulk?
http://www.alibaba.c...ampelopsin.html

Edited by Elus, 01 July 2012 - 12:32 AM.

[golden1]

Am I right in thinking this would be like flumenzil and send me into benzo w/d since I'm dependant?

[kevinseven11]

I am very interested in buydhm.com
What will the effects of this be if no alcohol is consumed?

[manic_racetam]

So what's the dosage on this stuff? What should an adult human take to inhibit alcohol? I'm gonna try this stuff out on a few friends of mine

[MrHappy]

4.5mg/kg seems to do the trick: http://www.drugs-for...ad.php?t=178068

[manic_racetam]

Ok, so 400-500mg should sober someone up right quick, but 350mg would likely work too.

Edited by manic_racetam, 01 July 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[Hebbeh]

BuyDHM.com is offering samples capped at 280mg to the first 50 people that "like" their facebook page.

[telight]

Anyone having any luck with buydhm(.)com . Sent them an email 3 days requesting a sample after I liked their facebook page. No response thus far.

[manic_racetam]

Anyone having any luck with buydhm(.)com . Sent them an email 3 days requesting a sample after I liked their facebook page. No response thus far.

No response here either

[Hebbeh]

Anyone having any luck with buydhm(.)com . Sent them an email 3 days requesting a sample after I liked their facebook page. No response thus far.

No response here either

Me either

[burntangel]

I didn't have a response from them either. I suspect a scam

[MrHappy]

Seems like a lot of effort to scam $10 or so..
Maybe he died or went on holidays? :(
I've been looking for other sources. Looks like direct to China is the answer:

http://www.fuzing.co...ihydromyricetin
http://www.china-dir...omyricetin.html
http://www.alibaba.c...tin_90_95_.html
http://www.pharmaceu...ricetin-71.html

[platypus]

This stuff has great commercial potential in US and other countires where breathanalyzer tests are forbidden on the road. I'd be really interested in hearing how quick this stuff erases effects of intoxication.