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C60 experiments @ home

buckyball c60 fullerene buckyballs

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#91 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:30 AM

And I am 60 with mitochondria damaged from statin use. By the time more rat trials are done and human trials are done, Brainbox, the window where this stuff might still work may well be closed.

#92 What'sAllThisThen

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:49 AM

I can borrow a centrifuge and filters are easy to buy online.

I am not sure how I am going to prevent oxidation while stirring. If I use the test tube rocker there needs to be an air pocket to maximize the mixing but is this going to lead to oxidation? I could vacuum out the air but I worry that the lower pressure will adversely affect the solubility. I supposed I could put some inherit gas in the tube to displace the oxygen. Helium perhaps.


I don't know how it affects the rest of your solution, but a little astaxanthin could help prevent oxidation.

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#93 Metrodorus

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:54 AM

Get a magnetic stirrer, ( not a test-tube shaker or rocker) and put your oil - fullerene mixture in a litre glass screwtop jar, with the teflon covered stirring rod dropped inside......if indeed you need to stir it. A daily shake might be all that is necessary, if you are prepared to wait a few weeks. Oxidation should not be a problem, anyway, at room temperature. Carbon 60 is a powerful anti-oxidant, and impedes lipid peroxidation of the oil.

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#94 zorba990

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:57 AM

Is C60 already approved for cosmetic use? Because I was surprised to find this on amazon: http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B001E167F6

#95 zorba990

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:13 AM

Does anyone else notice an eerie similarity between the electrode method of fullerene production described here: http://en.wikipedia....-Buseck_et_al-2 and the old Edgar Cayce "animated ash" remedy?

#96 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:19 AM

I have been searching for C60... from Asia, Japan and India to a production facility back here at home in the USA...

It is very expensive everywhere, to the point where i was thinking about having a plasma arc reactor made if we were sure about the results of the material.

You can say that my initial investment in the kilo, is specifically to test a few things and properties about it... before going to the next step.

The expense is high, close to the price that niner has linked to, in an earlier post. I think the site he linked to was www.term-usa.com/price.html

I am sure you will find many companies offering it with similar pricing, i am hoping we can process the kilo and raffle part of it away to folks that have a few rats to test it on. Personally i am looking forward to knowing we can produce the oil on a larger scale for folks that would like to consider it for their animals... like my big giant rat.

:D

A

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#97 mpe

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:23 AM

I'll donate $100 to the experiment

#98 AdamI

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:56 AM

I have been searching for C60... from Asia, Japan and India to a production facility back here at home in the USA...

It is very expensive everywhere, to the point where i was thinking about having a plasma arc reactor made if we were sure about the results of the material.

You can say that my initial investment in the kilo, is specifically to test a few things and properties about it... before going to the next step.

The expense is high, close to the price that niner has linked to, in an earlier post. I think the site he linked to was www.term-usa.com/price.html

I am sure you will find many companies offering it with similar pricing, i am hoping we can process the kilo and raffle part of it away to folks that have a few rats to test it on. Personally i am looking forward to knowing we can produce the oil on a larger scale for folks that would like to consider it for their animals... like my big giant rat.

:D

A

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Can't you begin selling it in your skin care product on Revgenetics first? The only one, one can buy now is soo expensive. 100 ml lotion for 177 USD... and have 2 peptides as well though

#99 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:29 PM

Dose Check (someone please check my math):

So according to Cataldo, mixing fullerenes for 3 days will yield a C60/olive oil concentration of 909 mg/l or roughly 0.9 mg/ml and according to Baati et al, mixing for 2 weeks will yield a concentration 0.8 mg/ml. I would assume the differences are due to measurement technique rather than mixing technique (although I wish they would have went into more detail on how they 'mixed' their samples).

It is interesting that both started their preparation with about 3-6X the final concentration, that is, they added more C60 to the olive oil than they assumed would dissolve:

Baati: 50 mg/10 ml = 5 mg/ml = 6.25X
Cataldo: 40 mg/16 g = 40 mg/15 ml = 2.7 gm/ml = 3X

The problem with this is that if we follow this method of preparation this essentially makes our C60 10 times as expensive. I don't think I have much of a choice but to add at most 2X the amount of fullerene I expect to dissolve.

So lets say one wanted to push the envelope and take the full 1.7 mg/kg bw. I weight 185 lbs, that is 84 kg. If I prepare a sample of 0.8 mg/ml that means I need to drink 178 ml/day or 3/4 cups of olive oil. That is a lot especially for me because I have difficulty swallowing due to my illness. Although oil is easier to swallow than water. I will definitely have to spread this out over the day.

HP

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 03 May 2012 - 04:35 PM.


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#100 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:47 PM

HP, take the 909 mg/l number with a grain of salt. There aren't really three significant digits there, and the actual limit will depend on the brand of oil. So it you just keep it to .8 g/l or less, almost all of it should go in even without mechanical stirring. And also keep in mind that the dose used with the rats was arbitrary. As far as I can tell, there was no trial to determine the most effective dose. They probably used a lot because they didn't want a null result.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 May 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#101 Junk Master

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:02 PM

I think I'd rather die than drink 3/4 a cup of olive oil everyday for the rest of my life, and I'm part Italian.

Any more anecdotal reports, Turnbuckle? I've got an 8 year old Lab who has trouble getting into the car and I'd love to test some on him.

#102 manic_racetam

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:05 PM

Dose Check (someone please check my math):

So according to Cataldo, mixing fullerenes for 3 days will yield a C60/olive oil concentration of 909 mg/l or roughly 0.9 mg/ml and according to Baati et al, mixing for 2 weeks will yield a concentration 0.8 mg/ml. I would assume the differences are due to measurement technique rather than mixing technique (although I wish they would have went into more detail on how they 'mixed' their samples).

It is interesting that both started their preparation with about 3-6X the final concentration, that is, they added more C60 to the olive oil than they assumed would dissolve:

Baati: 50 mg/10 ml = 5 mg/ml = 6.25X
Cataldo: 40 mg/16 g = 40 mg/15 ml = 2.7 gm/ml = 3X

The problem with this is that if we follow this method of preparation this essentially makes our C60 10 times as expensive. I don't think I have much of a choice but to add at most 2X the amount of fullerene I expect to dissolve.

So lets say one wanted to push the envelope and take the full 1.7 mg/kg bw. I weight 185 lbs, that is 84 kg. If I prepare a sample of 0.8 mg/ml that means I need to drink 178 ml/day or 3/4 cups of olive oil. That is a lot especially for me because I have difficulty swallowing due to my illness. Although oil is easier to swallow than water. I will definitely have to spread this out over the day.

HP


It needs to be noted that rat doses cannot be multiplied by human body weights to get the equivalent human dosage. I didn't read the full paper so not sure if the 1.7mg/kg is directly from the rat study or if it has already been scaled for adjustment in human dosage. But 1.7mg/kg for a 150g rat would be approximately equal to a 29.4mg dose in a 85kg human.

There are a couple ways to calculate these adjustments. The most convenient I've found is using an allometric scaling calculator. chrono once explained to me an easier and more accurate way to make the calculations but I can't seem to find the post.

So allometric scaling it is then. (link to the free online calculator)
Attached File  Capture.JPG   27.49KB   2 downloads

If 1.7mg/kg is already scaled for human dosage then I apologize for bringing this up.
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#103 revenant

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

For anyone who is interested, I retrieved this page from the web.archive.org. It is a workshop from the University of Sussex that describes how to produce and purify C60.

http://web.archive.o...o/workshop.html

Edited by revenant, 03 May 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#104 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:09 PM

Turnbuckle,

Thanks. I'll assume 0.8g/L. Also, they were basically trying to harm the rats by giving them a large dose.

I just got all the equipment in today. Magnetic stirrer, ebay $45, made circa 1950 so should be able to go all day long without overheating. Magnetic rod. Centrifuge is on order. This is going to be the laborious part. I should be able to centrifuge and filter a days worth of elixir each day. Especially if I start with a much lower dose.

HP

#105 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:11 PM

Manic,

No the 1.7 is for rats. They made no mention of scaling to human doses. Thanks so much for that.

This is a topic I know nothing about. However, in many of the mouse studies for ALS they used equivalent doses in mg/kg for humans and mice.

Ben

#106 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:29 PM

Any reason not to use a plastic container for the C60/oil?

#107 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

The problem with this is that if we follow this method of preparation this essentially makes our C60 10 times as expensive. I don't think I have much of a choice but to add at most 2X the amount of fullerene I expect to dissolve.


Typo, meant 3-7 times as expensive.

#108 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:07 PM

I think I'd rather die than drink 3/4 a cup of olive oil everyday for the rest of my life, and I'm part Italian.

Any more anecdotal reports, Turnbuckle? I've got an 8 year old Lab who has trouble getting into the car and I'd love to test some on him.


No more dog stories, JM, but yesterday I ran 40 yards without breathing, which is a massive improvement over my oxygen utilization just a few days before when I couldn't run 100 yards without gasping for breath. I'm now up to 20 mg C60 per day (.23mg/kg) in two 10 mg doses, which is about 60% of what the rats were getting by allometric scaling. The only noticeable side effect is oily skin.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 May 2012 - 07:12 PM.


#109 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

The problem with this is that if we follow this method of preparation this essentially makes our C60 10 times as expensive. I don't think I have much of a choice but to add at most 2X the amount of fullerene I expect to dissolve.


Typo, meant 3-7 times as expensive.



First, you really don't want a saturated solution, because when the temperature drops you'll get precipitation. And second, if you do it this way you don't have to throw away the undissolved material. It can be reused for the next batch.

#110 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:01 PM

I wonder though is it important to add more C60 that can be saturated to ensure saturation. That is, say I put 0.5 g into a liter of olive oil. Is there a chance only say 50% of that will get dissolved. And does putting too much in ensure maximum dissolution.

#111 hav

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

Been doing a little research into the composition of various olive oils from different regions. Found an interesting paper comparing olive oils to hazelnut oils with quite a bit of comparitive information in it on a variety of other oils:

http://www.springerl...y4n8bwb8131bhd/

Don't know if it's important but they specified using olive oil from Tunisia in the rat paper. The oil paper indicates that extra virgin olive oils from North Africa have the highest fatty acid compositions with Turkish olive oil a close 2nd with European olive oils having significantly less... in fact closer to the range of Hazelnet oils which is even lower. Same trend for terpenic alcohols and methylsterols. Which is interesting because European, particularly Italian olive oil, is widely suspected of being cut with Hazelnut oil which is less expensive.

Other interesting facts cited in the paper indicate olive oils are fairly high in triacylglyceride content comnpared to other oils... ranked 3rd behind cottonseed and palm oils. With hazelnut and coconut olis the lowest.

Unfortunately no specs in the oils paper on the California cold pressed olive oil that I'm partial to. Which is what I'll probably go with if I give this a try.

Howard
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#112 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:19 PM

I wonder though is it important to add more C60 that can be saturated to ensure saturation. That is, say I put 0.5 g into a liter of olive oil. Is there a chance only say 50% of that will get dissolved. And does putting too much in ensure maximum dissolution.


No, you don't have to worry that only half will go it. It will all go in. And you will know the concentration, whereas if you do it the other way, you'll be guessing that your olive oil behaves the same as the oil used by the people who wrote the paper.
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#113 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:44 PM

Turnbuckel, Excellent point. But on the downside, the more dilute I make my solution, the more olive oil I am going to have to drink.

Howard: That is troubling, but on the other hand Cataldo made no reference (that I noticed) of his olive oil source but it looks like he is from Italy and likely conducted the research there. I just shot the author an email.

#114 Junk Master

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:49 PM

Tell you what, tie Fullerenes to Paleo Diet and the first to market is going to make MILLIONS.

I think it's more likely they were first ingested as part of ritual burning of camphor.

Pretty exciting stuff.

#115 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:09 AM

Well I thought I was home free. I have my magnetic stirrer whirring away 0.5 grams of C60 in about 600 mL of olive oil. My centrifuge should arrive tomorrow, the only part missing is filtering with a 0.2 micron filter. I decided to run a trial with unprepared olive oil. I thought I would just use a syringe filter since they are so cheap. I hooked up my foodsaver vacuums saver and made a make-shift Buchner filter system. Well the oil wouldn't budge through the filter. I tried forcing it through via the plunger on the syring and a few drops came out but it was clear that this wasn't going to work.

This might be the hardest part of the process.

Any ideas on filtering?

Attached Files


Edited by HappyPhysicist, 04 May 2012 - 12:13 AM.


#116 maxwatt

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:03 AM

Anthony -
To improve the taste of that much olive oil, I recommend sauteing with garlic and fresh oregano, basil and rosemary, then drizzle over some fresh pasta. Or you can add to a tomato sauce if taste is really an issue that should hide it. Mangia, mangia, mangia!

Edited by maxwatt, 05 May 2012 - 04:50 AM.


#117 Metrodorus

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:39 AM

I'm not sure filtration is necessary. You are not running a toxicology study. Just leave it for a few days and use gravity to separate out the undissolved fullerenes, decant, and add more oil to dissolve any residue. Or run it through standard lab filter paper, and then successively through a series of finer grade filters, until the filtration stops working.
The toxicity of this amount of fullerene appears to be very low, if the studies that have been carried out so far are accurate. I imagine larger particles will just end up in your stool anyway.

#118 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:21 AM

I'm not sure filtration is necessary. You are not running a toxicology study. Just leave it for a few days and use gravity to separate out the undissolved fullerenes, decant, and add more oil to dissolve any residue. Or run it through standard lab filter paper, and then successively through a series of finer grade filters, until the filtration stops working.
The toxicity of this amount of fullerene appears to be very low, if the studies that have been carried out so far are accurate. I imagine larger particles will just end up in your stool anyway.


I was under the impression that clumps of C60 can be very bad for you hence the filtration. I'll have to search through the literature so see where I got that impression.

#119 revenant

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:40 AM

can anone find a food grade oil soluble deflocculant?

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#120 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:50 AM

Its funny you mentioned oily skin...

I was fine taking 4/5 of a cup of olive oil a day, i didnt take it yesterday.... and today i suddenly ad some zits, a bunch, little ones...

I think i will get back on the oil tomorrow... if these suckers disappear, i will laugh. :)

About the skin cream, other than price... (and boy have i found out how diluted the creams are! I dont suggest them as the quantities are in ppm and very minute) my only issue is that a C60 cream may need to be less of a cream and more of an applied liquid... such as a vitamin e mix. My concern is that it may be a real good delivery system, and that you may want to limit the ingredients in a topical solution.

Cheers
A

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