82 replies to this topic

[Chupo]

How low of fat are these doctors recommending?

They recommend no more than 10-15% fat, and to limit fruit to 3 per day (because simple-sugar can increase triglycerides). They both recommend flax-seeds which provide the essential fats.

The China Study shows lower mortality with increased fat calorie percentage and increase mortality with higher carbohydrate and protein calorie percentage.

Vascular disease mortality and macronutrient percentage.

Fat



Protein



Carbohydrate




Cancer and macronutrient percentages:

Fat



Protein


Carbohydrate





You see the same with the Japanese regarding fat but not protein:

The present paper examines the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly based on 3 epidemiological studies. 1. Nutrient intakes in 94 Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. 2. High intakes of milk and fats and oils had favorable effects on 10-year (1976-1986) survivorship in 422 urban residents aged 69-71. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the 10 years. 3. Nutrient intakes were compared, based on 24-hour dietary records, between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and 65 were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. Intakes of Ca, Fe, vitamins A, B1, B2, C, and the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter. Intakes of carbohydrates and NaCl were lower.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1407826

1. Japanese immigrants from Okinawa living in Brazil have a higher mortality from cardiovascular diseases and have their mean life expectancy shortened compared with their counterparts living in Japan. 2. A cross-sectional study comparing Okinawans living in Okinawa (OO) and Okinawan immigrants living in Brazil (OB) was designed to characterize the dietary factors that could interfere with the profile of cardiovascular risk factors and with this reduction on the life expectancy when Okinawans emigrate to Brazil. 3. In total, 234 OO and 160 OB (aged 45-59 years) were recruited to the present study to undergo medical and dietary history, blood pressure measurement, electrocardiograph (ECG), blood tests and 24 h food/urine collection. 4. In the present study, OO subjects presented with 37% less obesity and 50% less systemic hypertension than OB. The OB subjects used threefold more antihypertensive medication than OO. Meat intake was 34% higher in OB than OO, whereas fish intake was sevenfold higher in OO than OB. Serum potassium levels were 10% higher in OO than OB. Urinary taurine (an index of seafood intake) was 43% higher in OO than OB. Urinary isoflavones (an index of the intake of soy products) were significantly lower in OB than in OO. Of acid (20:5) and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6) were two- and threefold higher in OO than OB, respectively. 5. The rate of ischaemic ECG changes in OO subjects was only 50% of that of OB subjects. 6. There were no differences in the smoking rate between OO and OB subjects. 7. The results of the present study suggest that coronary risk factors and cardiovascular health are not only regulated by genetic factors, but that the impact of lifestyle (mainly diet) can be large enough to modulate the expression of genes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18254187

Is it the fish or calorie restriction?

Calorie restriction leads to fat-burning, even on a high carb diet. Fats use mostly complex II while carbs use mostly complex I in the mitochondrial transport chain. Complex I leaks free radicals and damages cellular proteins, lipids, LDL and DNA. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2755292/

[misterE]

The Mediterranean-diet is a step in the right direction, but it is not optimal (at least in my opinion). The countries surround the Mediterranean-sea still have higher heart-disease and cancer rates compared to a truly low-fat Asian diet at 10% fat-calories.

[Kevnzworld]

The Mediterranean-diet is a step in the right direction, but it is not optimal (at least in my opinion). The countries surround the Mediterranean-sea still have higher heart-disease and cancer rates compared to a truly low-fat Asian diet at 10% fat-calories.

Asia is a big place. Where specifically? The Chinese and surrounding countries use a lot of oil in wok prepared food. Indian food uses ghee as a base.

[Kevnzworld]

Regulation of longevity and oxidative stress by nutritional interventions: Role of methionine restriction.

Quote : " Regarding the dietary factor responsible for the life extension effect of DR, neither carbohydrate nor LIPID RESTRICTION seem to modify maximum longevity. However protein restriction (PR) and methionine restriction (at least 80% MetR) increase maximum lifespan in rats and mice "
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23454735

[Kevnzworld]

" Eating a Mediterranean diet rich in unrefined olive oil or nuts lowered the rate of major cardiovascular events, at least among people at increased risk for heart disease, researchers reported."
http://www.medpageto...Nutrition/37512

[TheFountain]

CONCLUSIONS:
No difference was found in the acute adverse effect of the ingestion of different vegetable oils on the endothelial function. All the vegetable oils, fresh and deep-fried, produced an increase in the triglyceride plasma levels in healthy subjects.

I thought post prandial endotheliol function (and to some extend dysfunction) was normal across the board in a segment of the population, regardless of macronutrient composition of meals.

[misterE]

[TheFountain]

Whether or not that video Mister E posted is biased he makes some great points in it about processed/hydrogenated oils. Even if he does ignore compounding factors, such as whether or not polyphenol content in Olive oil effects the perceived 'neutrality' of the oil. I think it is safe to say that anything with a Phenol number of 300 or more is going to be more than neutral and enters into the spectrum of positive health benefits.

[zorba990]

From
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17879991

Mol Nutr Food Res. 2007 Oct;51(10):1199-208.
The influence of olive oil on human health: not a question of fat alone.
Pérez-Jiménez F, Ruano J, Perez-Martinez P, Lopez-Segura F, Lopez-Miranda J.
Source
Lipids and Atherosclerosis Research Unit, Reina Sofia University Hospital, University of Córdoba, Ciber Fisiopatología Obesidad y Nutrición (CB06/03), Instituto de Salud Carlos III, Spain. fperezjimenez@uco.es
Abstract
Olive oil is the most representative food in the traditional Mediterranean diet and its most important source of MUFA. The healthy benefits of MUFA-rich diets on plasma cholesterol levels, were the first to generate interest in this dietary model. In addition to the benefits conferred by its lipids, olive oil has other biological effects, some of them also related to MUFA. However, most recent studies have shown that there are a number of properties that depend on, or are potentiated by, the consumption of olive oil, such as virgin olive oil, that is rich in microcomponents. This foodstuff, thanks to its double set of benefits, thus tends to produce a better lipid profile and a less prothrombotic environment, promoting antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects, with a greater endothelial protective capacity. In view of these effects, it would appear that when olive oil is the basic source of dietary alimentary fat it has a major antiatherogenic capacity, which is not shared to the same extent by other oils that are rich in oleic acid but lack its characteristic micronutrients.
PMID: 17879991 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15554560


Eur J Cancer Prev. 2004 Aug;13(4):319-26.
Olives and olive oil in cancer prevention.
Owen RW, Haubner R, Würtele G, Hull E, Spiegelhalder B, Bartsch H.
Source
Division of Toxicology and Cancer Risk Factors, German Cancer Research Center, Im Neuenheimer Feld 280, D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany. R.Owen@DKFZ-Heidelberg.de
Abstract
Epidemiologic studies conducted in the latter part of the twentieth century demonstrate fairly conclusively that the people of the Mediterranean basin enjoy a healthy lifestyle with decreased incidence of degenerative diseases. The data show that populations within Europe that consume the so-called 'Mediterranean diet' have lower incidences of major illnesses such as cancer and cardiovascular disease. Studies have suggested that the health-conferring benefits of the Mediterranean diet are due mainly to a high consumption of fibre, fish, fruits and vegetables. More recent research has focused on other important factors such as olives and olive oil. Obviously fibre (especially wholegrain-derived products), fruits and vegetables supply an important source of dietary antioxidants. What is the contribution from olives and olive oil? Apparently the potential is extremely high but epidemiologic studies rarely investigate consumption of these very important products in-depth, perhaps due to a lack of exact information on the types and amounts of antioxidants present. Recent studies have shown that olives and olive oil contain antioxidants in abundance. Olives (especially those that have not been subjected to the Spanish brining process) contain up to 16 g/kg typified by acteosides, hydroxytyrosol, tyrosol and phenyl propionic acids. Olive oil, especially extra virgin, contains smaller amounts of hydroxytyrosol and tyrosol, but also contains secoiridoids and lignans in abundance. Both olives and olive oil contain substantial amounts of other compounds deemed to be anticancer agents (e.g. squalene and terpenoids) as well as the peroxidation-resistant lipid oleic acid. It seems probable that olive and olive oil consumption in southern Europe represents an important contribution to the beneficial effects on health of the Mediterranean diet.
PMID: 15554560 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances

LinkOut - more resources

[Ark]

I don't see HARP oil on the list, which is a good one IMHO.

[TheFountain]

I don't see HARP oil on the list, which is a good one IMHO.

Maybe because the HARP Seal are endangered and it is dumb and selfish to kill them for their oil.

[Ark]

I still like it, so pfft, call me crazy. 8-)

[misterE]

One of the things we're doing to screw up our omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is consuming oils (and eating grain-fed meat). We want a ratio of 1:1 ideally; olive-oil has a ratio of 1:12!

[Ark]

HARP OIL

[Chupo]

One of the things we're doing to screw up our omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is consuming oils (and eating grain-fed meat). We want a ratio of 1:1 ideally; olive-oil has a ratio of 1:12!

The reason grain-fed meat is high in O6 is because grain is high in O6. Wheat has a ratio of 1:12 and corn 1:30 ! Grain-fed people will likely have the same ratio as grain-fed bacon I:17.

[misterE]

The reason grain-fed meat is high in O6 is because grain is high in O6. Wheat has a ratio of 1:12 and corn 1:30 ! Grain-fed people will likely have the same ratio as grain-fed bacon I:17.

Look at it this way: you eat 1000 calories of corn which gives you (let’s say for arguments’ sake) 2.5 grams of omega-6 and trace amounts of omega-3. Now you eat 1000 calories of corn-fed bacon and you get (lets say) 60 grams of omega-6 and trace amounts of omega-3… both diets lead to a deficit, but which deficit is easier to correct?



Grains have considerably less total fat than meat (especially bacon), so when eating grains, you do get omega-6, just not in a huge amount that meat or oil supplies, thus the balance is easy to correct and doesn’t contribute to omega-6 overload. Also beans and vegetables have positive omega-3 to omega-6 ratios… combine that with some flaxseeds and you actually have the perfect ratio of omegas with a diet consisting of grains, beans, fruits, vegetables and flaxseed. Just check cron-o-meter if you have doubts.



The reason why Americans are inflamed and overloaded with omega-6 is because Americans eat around 200lbs of grain-fed meat, 300 eggs from grain-fed chickens and 87lbs of pure oil… per person, per year! It's not because of grains, which Americans are eating much less of, since 1900.

Edited by misterE, 06 August 2013 - 12:58 AM.

[TheFountain]

Mister E

I am wondering why you do not account for the health benefits of polyphenols in a really good olive oil.

Do you ignore the science of the health benefits of polyphenols from Olive oil? And if so, why?

Edited by TheFountain, 09 August 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[misterE]

Mister E

I am wondering why you do not account for the health benefits of polyphenols in a really good olive oil.

Do you ignore the science of the health benefits of polyphenols from Olive oil? And if so, why?

Because there are much better sources of polyphenols, without getting all the fat… like green tea for example.

[TheFountain]

Mister E

I am wondering why you do not account for the health benefits of polyphenols in a really good olive oil.

Do you ignore the science of the health benefits of polyphenols from Olive oil? And if so, why?

Because there are much better sources of polyphenols, without getting all the fat… like green tea for example.

High polyphenol foods usually have a bitter taste, if the phenol content is intact. Take fresh Kale for example. Most store bought olive oils probably have a low phenol content due to oxidation and age. If you ever try a truly fresh olive oil that is within a month or two of harvest you will know exactly what I mean. Especially a lot of the spanish stuff. Very bitter and very high in Polyphenols. I think the phenol content just might outweigh the mild effects from the mostly neutral fat (MUFAs) contained therein.

[misterE]

I think the phenol content just might outweigh the mild effects from the mostly neutral fat (MUFAs) contained therein.

Olive oil does have phytonutrients, but it has many drawbacks. (Oil) is the most calorie-dense substance on the earth, thus promoting lipotoxicity and obesity. Olive oil is 14% saturated-fat, the American Heart Association recommends eating less than 7% saturated-fat… Ornish and Esselstyn recommend below 5%. Olive oil has an omega-3 to omega-6 ratio of 1:13.

Olive-oil is pure triglycerides; liquid-fat. There is much better places to obtain phytonutrients, like kale… which you already mentioned. Eating vegetables gives you the phytonutrients, without all the excess calories.

One of the best ways to implement CR is by diluting out the calorie-density of the diet. Oil is the most calorie-dense food on earth (over twice as dense as sugar), at 120 calories per tablespoon, it provides no satiety and enhances the flavor of other foods, fat is also effortlessly stored in the body. Every drop of oil you consume will accumulate either in the adipose-tissue or in non-adipose-tissue, thus it promotes overconsumption of calories and easily promotes fat-gain, because oil is already in the form for storage.

Edited by misterE, 13 August 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[bernard]

misterE, please stop writing your idiotic nonsense here. 70% of your brain is comprised of fat. Nearly 50% of cardiac tissue is fat. Fat is the single most important macronutrient that your body needs. Oils are essential and very important. We need to consume a lot of oils in their refined form. Nobody cares whether its caloric dense or not. In the end it's the insulin resistance that makes you fat and unhealthy and not the calories. Guess what carbs lead to insulin resistance while MUFAs and PUFAs improve insulin sensitivity.
And guess what - the woman that lived the longest on this earth Calment ascribed her longevity and relatively youthful appearance for her age to olive oil, which she said she poured on all her food^[4] and rubbed onto her skin,
Ornish and Esseltyn are complete idiots. They are your fad book sellers. Everybody here should ignore the idiotic posts of misterE, because what he's saying is very dangerous for your health. Even eating at McDonalds is more healthy than dropping fats from your diet. Warning, stay away, the guy has been brainwashed by cute youtube videos.

[TheFountain]

I think the phenol content just might outweigh the mild effects from the mostly neutral fat (MUFAs) contained therein.

Olive oil does have phytonutrients, but it has many drawbacks. (Oil) is the most calorie-dense substance on the earth, thus promoting lipotoxicity and obesity. Olive oil is 14% saturated-fat, the American Heart Association recommends eating less than 7% saturated-fat… Ornish and Esselstyn recommend below 5%. Olive oil has an omega-3 to omega-6 ratio of 1:13.

Olive-oil is pure triglycerides; liquid-fat. There is much better places to obtain phytonutrients, like kale… which you already mentioned. Eating vegetables gives you the phytonutrients, without all the excess calories.

One of the best ways to implement CR is by diluting out the calorie-density of the diet. Oil is the most calorie-dense food on earth (over twice as dense as sugar), at 120 calories per tablespoon, it provides no satiety and enhances the flavor of other foods, fat is also effortlessly stored in the body. Every drop of oil you consume will accumulate either in the adipose-tissue or in non-adipose-tissue, thus it promotes overconsumption of calories and easily promotes fat-gain, because oil is already in the form for storage.

You do realize that Olive oil is mostly MUFA yes? And these are neutral fats, according to the unanimous view of most dietary specialists. When you use an olive oil that has a polyphenol number of, say, 400-600, you are also offsetting a lot of the hypothetically mild negative health effects of the fat. Science seems to have proven that. I also think it is questionable that there is a linear relationship between dietary fat and weight gain. Unless you are talking about a hyper-lipid setting. In which case the calorie density would be more relevant than the fat itself. A tablespoon of olive oil however is typically half as calorie dense as a plate of spaghetti or a bowl of rice. And how olive oil is often used is as a dressing to salads, which augments nutrient absorption due to fat solubility.

[kurdishfella]

can you make an oil out of everything (food that is)? And what is the difference between ingesting it in its natural form vs in a oil form? Besides for food luxury. 

Edited by kurdishfella, 27 December 2020 - 02:28 PM.