162 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

 

Everything physical that exists has a cause.  If you take the position we are physical we have a ca use.  We are part of the physical cosmos and at least our physical aspect is ruled by the same rules as the rest of the physical existence.  The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies equally to us.

 

 

Better go play with your rosary. Physics is not for you.

 

 

Wow how profound.  Not interested in your childish attacks.  If you want to relate to the topic please do.  Otherwise ho hummm
 

[Antonio2014]

I think that if this is as far as your thinking about transcendence extends -- and I'm not saying it is -- then you may be missing out on a big part of what it means to be a human being.

 

I didn't talk about transcendence at all, only about religion.

 

Have you considered the possibility that more may exist beyond what you're now able to feel and think?

 

Huh? Why should I waste my time with something that I can't feel or think? And how in the world can someone consider something he can't feel nor think?

 

How about smoking a joint?

 

Huh? Maybe I will gain a ban from this thread, but that is really stupid question. How in the hell can a substance that distorts my perception and alters my mood without a reason (making me euphoric or anxious without a reason for being euphoric or anxious)  teach me something about reality??? It's ridiculous! It's like saying that playing Pacman can teach me something about the real world instead of only Pacman's world.

 

 

Everything physical that exists has a cause.  If you take the position we are physical we have a ca use.  We are part of the physical cosmos and at least our physical aspect is ruled by the same rules as the rest of the physical existence.  The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies equally to us.

 

 

Better go play with your rosary. Physics is not for you.

 

 

Wow how profound.  Not interested in your childish attacks.  If you want to relate to the topic please do.  Otherwise ho hummm
 

 

Arguments so stupid as your first one don't deserve a serious reply.

[Multivitz]

@Antonio The second law of thermodynamics is incomplete, heat loses get disapated in ways the science can't explain, the agrument is over the appearance and disappearance of heat. Salt undergoes an edothermic low temperature transmutation reaction to cool down the bodies core. Ok photons are light with a temperature value maybe, what decides this, what is heat? It ain't the little ping pong balls rattling around!
If I was a professional scientist, I would study some Transmutation findings before listening to a religious man. It would make communication and thier discoveries more meaningful to each other. Who made these laws that guide our engineers, is it the same group who brought us Black Hole THEORIES LOL

Someone is observing through stupid glasses, the guy in the photo is obviously very tired of trying to get his point across, at least he doesn't get cognitive dissonance by the look of him.

Edited by Multivitz, 17 December 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[Antonio2014]

@Antonio Just experiencing DMT will give them a personal idea of the transcendental experience. If they employed the notion of meeting Peter Pan at the start of the DMT session they may yet met him. I would like to met Tinkerbell(I would have to rescale!), but I'm happily married lol
I'd find myself permanently rescaled if I did!!!

But would Peter Pan be an, 'Archon in disguise'?
Don't anyone try to answer it! Lol

 

Let's assume that you take DMT and see Peter Pan. So what? That doesn't tell anything about Peter Pan's existence. Even if you hallucinate and talk to, say, Cameron Diaz in your hallucination, that doesn't tell anything about how the real Cameron Diaz is.

[Antonio2014]

@Antonio The second law of thermodynamics is incomplete, heat loses get disapated in ways the science can't explain, the agrument is over the appearance and disappearance of heat. Salt undergoes an edothermic low temperature transmutation reaction to cool down the bodies core.

 

Transwhat??? Wow, it seems that this thread attracts all cranks in this forum.

 

Time to do more interesting things than discussing here.
 

[Multivitz]

Something you can't see or feel. Antonio don't go dissonance mate.
I beg, we beg to differ.
Transcendental states could be said is the observation of potentials, because of the holographic nature of the space we find ourselves in, everything is outside of us(reachable observance), everything is inside us (all the knowlege from the Akasia records) its an energy vibration focusing arrangment, that is the observation of life. Well thats what I have seen. My view is based on personal experience and science. There is few things that are available to measure stuff that vibrates and interfaces with a human, especially Burkland current, to name one. Wouldn't you agree......anyone?

Edited by Multivitz, 17 December 2015 - 11:45 PM.

[shadowhawk]

 

@Antonio The second law of thermodynamics is incomplete, heat loses get disapated in ways the science can't explain, the agrument is over the appearance and disappearance of heat. Salt undergoes an edothermic low temperature transmutation reaction to cool down the bodies core.

 

Transwhat??? Wow, it seems that this thread attracts all cranks in this forum.

 

Time to do more interesting things than discussing here.
 

 

For someone who THINKS they understand physic it is obviously over your head so good idea.

[Multivitz]

Google it Antonio, Google the education you were denied. Think our words are vibrating all over the place, until you take your own time to comprehend each word in it's context. Much luv. Don't call us.....we'll call you?

No one was arguing, you should see me argue! It's ugly.....not good.

Edited by Multivitz, 17 December 2015 - 11:53 PM.

[Multivitz]

I don't like religion that clips the wings of it's practicer's (practioner) freedoms. When you look into some they are very free. And most religions welcome science, not because they have to, but because theres good in everything. Religion recognises this well. I hope the standard of education rises. It took a big hit from the corporations.

[shadowhawk]

The absolute origin of the universe, of all matter and energy, even of physical space and time themselves, in the Big Bang singularity contradicts the perennial naturalistic assumption that the universe has always existed. One after another, models designed to avert the initial cosmological singularity--the Steady State model, the Oscillating model, Vacuum Fluctuation models--have come and gone. Current quantum gravity models, such as the Hartle-Hawking model and the Vilenkin model, must appeal to the physically unintelligible and metaphysically dubious device of "imaginary time" to avoid the universe's beginning. The contingency implied by an absolute beginning ex nihilo points to a transcendent cause of the universe beyond space and time. Philosophical objections to a cause of the universe fail to carry conviction.

 

So the question of life has two aspects.  Physical and spiritual as the topic states it.  It is alright to believe there is only physical life but doesn't it on the most fundamental level mean we will die? We may find ways to extend life but in the scheme of things it is but an instant.

[Multivitz]

Why would someone compartmentalise Spiritualism for immortality use, spirtuality is a product of our existanc, all spiritual information would do is confirm what we could know. There's alot of different bibles that tell of immortals, I say we have a new Sun from our original Red one, the new Sun is a potential problem for immortality goal maybe?
If we were in no fit state to explore our spiritually then we would die a shorter life but be reborn if we had the belief and go through life again where ever it took us.
We talk about spirituality, a common defenition of it helps, but knowing is nice.
Having science showing glimpses from behind the duality vail it ok, but having everyone on the same page is going to take a joint effort. I hope I'm not a bud clut!

Edited by Multivitz, 18 December 2015 - 12:37 AM.

[Multivitz]

I got explained once how our memories get wiped from each transition but there's a method that stops that, I can't remember where I heard it. I think they are wiped because of a biological reason, but don't quote me on that.
We are a phenomenon of plasma, if you theorise maths and dimensions you get vibration, then you get all the infinity princibles. I'm happy with that, there's gods about, and stories of the universe beginnings. We might get told one day, only if they vibrate the same could we understand. The answers there already I feel. I bet the universe is just 5 dimensions with life teeming all over.

[shadowhawk]

Why would someone compartmentalise Spiritualism for immortality use, spirtuality is a product of our existanc, all spiritual information would do is confirm what we could know. There's alot of different bibles that tell of immortals, I say we have a new Sun from our original Red one, the new Sun is a potential problem for immortality goal maybe?
If we were in no fit state to explore our spiritually then we would die a shorter life but be reborn if we had the belief and go through life again where ever it took us.
We talk about spirituality, a common defenition of it helps, but knowing is nice.
Having science showing glimpses from behind the duality vail it ok, but having everyone on the same page is going to take a joint effort. I hope I'm not a bud clut!

Our topic depends on our anthropology as I stated before.  We are only physical given materialism or we are body soul and spirit given theism.  The issue of “life” is different for each.  I hear people talk of having indefinite life.  Given Materialism, what is the hope of this when everything physical dies?

[Dakman]

Merry xmas god freak 

[shadowhawk]

We have brought up Physics and whether it answers questions about things like the Soul or God.  I suppose that is beyond the topic so I will just post this this video on Fine tuning and the questions it raises.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shadowhawk]

I have made a statement, everything physical dies.  Anyone like to dispute this?

[Danail Bulgaria]

The immortal jellyfish?

 

https://en.wikipedia...itopsis_dohrnii

[Duchykins]

@ Sith 

 

 

Greetings everybody, this is my first proper post on the forum!  

 

So I wanted to kick a quick discussion off about Immortality or life extension through spiritual means. Does anyone think it's possible to gain life extension through spiritual means? It has been the centre of many religious philosophies for centuries now. We hear of ancient legends of immortality or at least life extension being gained. Opinions?  

 

(P.S: I'm a man of science, but this is an interesting topic nevertheless)  

 

 

As a person of freethought, as well as science, I would point out that your question begs the existence of whatever "spiritual" is.

 

We have some problems:

 

1)  What does this word mean?

 

2)  Once we've established a definition of this word, we can start figuring out what is needed to provide evidence of its existence, and we can figure ways to falsify it.

 

3)  If we ever make it past #2, then we would have to start trying to connect biological processes like aging to it, in order to see if one can affect the other.

Edited by Duchykins, 19 December 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[Duchykins]

I have made a statement, everything physical dies.  Anyone like to dispute this?

 

Please explain how an electron "dies."  Perhaps we need a definition of death first.

 

Another example; the lifetime of a proton is estimated to be between 10²⁵ to 10³³ years.  

 

To put this number into perspective, the age of the universe is approximately 1.4 x 10¹⁰ years.

 

And perhaps you can explain why your point matters.

[shadowhawk]

The immortal jellyfish?

 

https://en.wikipedia...itopsis_dohrnii

It is part of the Earth which is dying and it will to.  We are physically destined to hell as the sun expands to fry us or completely consume us.  Many things that are living now have longer lives but overall every  physical only thing in this system will die.  The jellyfish is not immortal.  long lived compared to us?  Yes.  We die much sooner,

[shadowhawk]

 

I have made a statement, everything physical dies.  Anyone like to dispute this?

 

Please explain how an electron "dies."  Perhaps we need a definition of death first.

 

Another example; the lifetime of a proton is estimated to be between 10²⁵ to 10³³ years.  

 

To put this number into perspective, the age of the universe is approximately 1.4 x 10¹⁰ years.

 

And perhaps you can explain why your point matters.

 

Given our topic,the cosmos is running down as far as having energy which is capable of doing anything.  This has been called a Heat death.  So the cosmos and everything in it will suffer this death.  This is the future of the physical.  Long before this Life sustaining environments will cease to exist.  True Immortality cannot come through physical means only.  Can it come through  spiritual means?  Can the "Force" be with us?  Can we be saved? 

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

The immortal jellyfish?

 

https://en.wikipedia...itopsis_dohrnii

It is part of the Earth which is dying and it will to.  We are physically destined to hell as the sun expands to fry us or completely consume us.  Many things that are living now have longer lives but overall every  physical only thing in this system will die.  The jellyfish is not immortal.  long lived compared to us?  Yes.  We die much sooner,

 

 

There are living things, that can survive in space conditions in absolute zero. 

 

Plus the jellyfish can live forever if it is protected. 

[shadowhawk]

With the entire cosmos dying a heat death the jellyfish will be long gone before forever.  As I said every thing physical will die.  I did not say somethings are long lived compared to us human beings.  It is not a long stretch to say 100 years from now the chance is we will all be physically dead and if we are only physical all we have to look forward to is decay.

 

[Danail Bulgaria]

There are living things, that survive in anabiosis in the absolute zero temperature and in space. The heath death will not concern them. They will fly in the absolutely empthy space in the absolute zero in a non-death condition. 

[shadowhawk]

Not in the ultimate heat death of the cosmos.  There will no longer be any availability energy even for life.  Also this a long way from human life.  All physical things die.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Oh, they will survive the heat death of the cosmos They may be in a forever long stasis, but not death. So... not everything physical dies. 

[shadowhawk]

So you think you will survive the heat death of the cosmos based upon your assumption that there are living things floating in outer space.?  Where is your evidence of such things?

[Duchykins]

 

 

I have made a statement, everything physical dies.  Anyone like to dispute this?

 

Please explain how an electron "dies."  Perhaps we need a definition of death first.

 

Another example; the lifetime of a proton is estimated to be between 10²⁵ to 10³³ years.  

 

To put this number into perspective, the age of the universe is approximately 1.4 x 10¹⁰ years.

 

And perhaps you can explain why your point matters.

 

Given our topic,the cosmos is running down as far as having energy which is capable of doing anything.  This has been called a Heat death.  So the cosmos and everything in it will suffer this death.  This is the future of the physical.  Long before this Life sustaining environments will cease to exist.  True Immortality cannot come through physical means only.  Can it come through  spiritual means?  Can the "Force" be with us?  Can we be saved? 

 

 

Yes I know about the heat death.  But that really just means near absolute zero and lack of motion.  It's not like atoms just disappear.  Actually, at supercool temps, QM starts making things very weird.  And a recent study has shown that there would still be a good deal of chemistry happening past a certain low temp point we previously thought would not be so active.

Edited by Duchykins, 22 December 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[shadowhawk]

It means there is no longer any energy available to do an anything. 

[Duchykins]

Not in the ultimate heat death of the cosmos.  There will no longer be any availability energy even for life.  Also this a long way from human life.  All physical things die.

 

 

That's incorrect.  Kinetic energy is not the only kind of energy.  Since we would be talking about near- or at absolute zero, you should take a look at QM zero-point energy.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed in an isolated system.  The universe is an isolated system; it is THE isolated system.

You're just making shit up based on popular belief and folk logic.

You don't actually know what you're talking about.