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Sulforaphane and Nicotinamide Riboside: The best combination for maximizing AMPK and the SIRTULINS?

sulfora sulforaphane nicotinamide riboside nad+ sirt1 ampk nrf2 pgc1a bioavailability potency

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#31 Harkijn

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:01 PM

In the video Dr. Fahey mentions Daikon favourably, but unfortunately not which type of Daikon. There is a huge variety of Daikons of different tastes and colours. Probably they will also differ in amounts of glucosinolates. Very interesting video confirming MrKosh's idea of eating broccoli sprouts as well as radish sprouts.

 

As dr. Fahey reminds us there are a number of plants that need not be boiled . We can eat radishes, watercress, garden cress without boiling or steaming. Just cut them up, leave them for 20mins (says dr. Fahey) on the counter and eat them as a salad. With a bit of mustard powder, just to be sure  :)



#32 InfiniteLifespan

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 05:33 PM

ALA definitely has a noticeable effect when I took it. Nicotinamide Riboside had no noticeable effect and seems to be pure hype. It is also very expensive. On the other hand Pterostilbene has a more noticeable effect but is much cheaper. Why not combine ALA with Pterostilbene instead?

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#33 BieraK

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 02:46 AM

As I know ALA has a short life effect.
For pterostilbene, well the compound has better absorption compared with resveratrol, however still looks a bit expensive.

All problems of supplements and drugs occur when checking their effectiveness in humans, cell cultures and mice work wonderfully, thats why we need suplements/drugs with a good absoption profile, as I understand the idea behind testing sulforaphane is the good absorption profile. If it is to activate AMPK and Sirt1, the antidiabetic drug metformin do these things.

With this I do not mean that compounds such as Curcumin, ECGC, Quercetin, Grape Seed Extract, Resveratrol, Pterostilbene are unable to produce a positive effect on the human body, just review this forum to realize that several people benefit from these compounds, in my case ECGC and Quercetin on a empty stomach with fat produces a notorious stimulating effect, Grape Seed Extract sublingual changes my blood circulation in a way that I can also notice it through my perception, however the idea is to find some compounds that have a excellent absorption profile in order to ensure that the effects seen in studies with mice or in cell cultures, can also happen in the human body and apparently Sulforaphane has a good absortion profile.

That is what the study cited says, lack of studies in humans, and supplements that has an amount of the compount not similar to amounts used in vitro studies and in animal studies.

I have decided that I will buy a 20:1 extract of Sulfuraphane, I will take 200 mcg to get 800 mg of sulforaphane to see its results:) .... maybe 400 mg (1,6 mg of Sulforaphane) are needed, however, for that I will need a good sum of money.


Edited by BieraK, 08 January 2017 - 03:16 AM.


#34 Nat1971a

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:13 AM

In the video towards the very end the doctor mentions that some people have reported an energy boost while taking broccoli sprouts. I too get the energy boost from it. I usually take a mix of tamarind purée and broccoli sprouts powder in Fiji water. Sometimes with magnesium sometimes without. The tamarind purée helps flush out fluoride. My mix also helps with concentration. So you can sort of see what will happen when combined with niagen. The key message from the video is the anti inflammatory effect of brocolli sprouts combined with probiotics to ensure conversion occurs. Gut flora is the key as well as gluten free. Gluten can inflame the gut

#35 APBT

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 02:02 PM

Here's another sulforaphane supplement for consideration:  https://www.cell-log...com/default.asp

 


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#36 ironfistx

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:40 AM

Grape Seed extract (varicose veins prevention) and Andrographis and Aloe Vera extract (Collagen production) are my breakfast :)

Would you give more details about these?

#37 steelsky

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 04:46 PM

I've found standardized extracts that either provide 5-30mg Sulforaphane Glucosinolate or 500-1000mcg of Sulforaphane. Any idea what the "conversion rate" is? And whether it is even "convertible", i.e. whether Sulforaphane is superior to Sulforaphane Glucosinolate because the latter needs to be metabolized?



#38 Oakman

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:31 PM

I've found standardized extracts that either provide 5-30mg Sulforaphane Glucosinolate or 500-1000mcg of Sulforaphane. Any idea what the "conversion rate" is? And whether it is even "convertible", i.e. whether Sulforaphane is superior to Sulforaphane Glucosinolate because the latter needs to be metabolized?

 

The best read I've found exposing the false promise of many broccoli supplements and explaining the chemical terms floating around sulforaphane.

https://www.cell-log...oducts_2015.pdf

 

=========== (Bolding is mine)

 

What’s in the bottle? 

 

Glance at the labels and Product Specification sheets which accompany many of these products reveals that the manufacturers and marketers have little knowledge of the subtleties of sulforaphane. Some products naively claim to contain sulforaphane; this is not possible as sulforaphane itself is unstable. The product should instead contain the two precursors, glucoraphanin and myrosinase which react when the product is consumed. Be very suspicious of any product claiming to contain sulforaphaneBe equally wary of products described as ‘extracts’ of either broccoli seed or sprouts. ‘Extracts’ must be produced in a way that completely destroys the activity of the myrosinase enzyme. As such, they are incapable of producing sulforaphane when consumed in a supplement or food. 

 

Many are labelled with a term contrived for marketing purposes, ‘sulforaphane glucosinolate’, presumably to imply that the product releases or contains sulforaphane. This is a misleading name for the correct chemical name ‘glucoraphanin’. Most importantly, ‘sulforaphane glucosinolate’ is not a scientific term and there is no need to create an ambiguous term to describe ‘glucoraphanin’. The majority of the available products (including those for clinicians) are of this type. 

 

For a product to be capable of producing sulforaphane when consumed, it must contain both glucoraphanin and the myrosinase enzyme. Because an extract has no myrosinase activity, the inert glucoraphanin it contains  is unable to produce sulforaphane. However, when a consumer reads a label which states, for example, “30mg sulforaphane glucosinolate”, he or she is likely to assume that the product contains 30mg of sulforaphane. Two well-designed recent studies1 , 2 highlight the fact that such products have no inherent sulforaphane-releasing capacity and that consumers can be misled into believing that such products are delivering benefits that are not possible with such products. Most consumers of course, have no way of determining the accuracy or reliability of such information and so, not surprisingly the products with the clever marketing campaigns sell well, in spite of the quality (or otherwise) of the ingredient. In addition, these same clinical trials highlight the benefits of using a whole broccoli sprout powder in order to take advantage of its other bioactives compounds.


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#39 steelsky

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:46 PM

Interesting, and disappointing.

 

One states:

Broccoli Sprouts Extract provides 2,000 mcg sulforaphane (from 500mg standardized extract)

 

The other:

20:1 broccoli sprout concentrate standardized to 0.4% sulforaphane (so claiming 400mcg sulforaphane)

 

There is yet another one that actually mentions myrosinase:

broccoli seed extract in a proprietary blend containing myrosinase enzyme.

 

So... going with the third one?

 



#40 Mike C

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:54 PM

http://wholefoodsexp...ous-vegetables/

More on cooking and enhancement of sulphorophane. I liked the concept that a little raw mixed in with cooked increases overall availability.
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#41 mrak1979

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:05 AM

Great thread. What are your opinions on this supplement by Jarrow?

http://www.jarrow.co...t/203/BroccoMax



#42 sthira

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 04:19 AM

http://wholefoodsexp...ous-vegetables/

More on cooking and enhancement of sulphorophane. I liked the concept that a little raw mixed in with cooked increases overall availability.


Thanks, from the article, in addition to adding some raw crucifers with steamed, I often spice the steamed with ground mustard seed, as advocated here:

"Strategy #3: Add Mirosinase From Other Crucifers

While most of us don’t have easy access to vials of myrosinase, as used in research, we can add myrosinase from our pantry. Research has shown that mustard seed powder to cooked vegetables provides the active myrosinase required to create sulforaphane. Remember, mustard greens are in the cruciferous family.

Again, a little goes a long way. In research studies, just a 1/2 teaspoon of mustard seed powder was enough to create sulforaphane for seven cups of cooked crucifers. Enzymes are powerful catalysts. So, just a pinch is all that is needed for an individual serving of cooked crucifers. Sprinkle a bit on top of the cooked vegetables, or add some mustard seed powder to your favorite mustard vinaigrette for dressing the cooked crucifers. Alternatively, add wasabi, horseradish or daikon, other sources of myrosinase, to the cooked crucifers and voila, you have sulforaphane."

I'm also experimenting with grinding organic broccoli seeds in my coffee grinder together with mustard seeds, and then mixing the two into tomato sauce with olive oil, black pepper... The tomato hides the spices' bitterness, and adds punch. I pour the possibly potent production over other steamed crucifers -- kale, cabbage, whatever. Sometimes I mix it with raw broccoli sprouts. I think we can overdo this, of course, how much is too much? My understanding is that sulforaphane is a bit toxic to cells, and it activates cellular defense mechanisms as in hormesis. I've also been enjoying raw purple daikon, which I find delicious.

Great thread. What are your opinions on this supplement by Jarrow?

http://www.jarrow.co...t/203/BroccoMax


I tend to like Jarrow supplements, but one of the specific products (available in the US market) mentioned by Jed Fahey is avmacol: http://www.nutramaxs...a-day-p440.aspx

In fact, as is usual in all of Rhonda Patrick's work, there's a load of great info in her interview with Jed Fahey on broccoli sprouts, isothiocyanates, the Nrf2 pathway, sulforophane, and moringa. Moringa (oleifera) is also an interesting and potentially Nrf2 kicker, and the moringa mentioned here is produced Kuli Kuli: https://www.kulikulifoods.com (Haiti needs some love ❤️right about now...)

#43 mrkosh1

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:10 PM

Hello Everyone,

 

What is the chance that broccoli extract inhibits CD38? 

 

 

 

 


Edited by mrkosh1, 10 January 2017 - 10:10 PM.


#44 Kirito

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:20 AM

Hello Everyone,

 

What is the chance that broccoli extract inhibits CD38? 

 

Broccoli does contain luteolin, which is a CD38 inhibitor. You would probably need to eat an extremely large amount of broccoli to move the needle, though.



#45 BasicBiO

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:46 PM

Im having decent results with the Jarrow BroccoMax so far. I've been using it for about a month. I began using it because of the flurry of new posts in these forums as well as some interesting anecdotal reports that it seemed to help a COPD sufferer. 

 

Prior to starting the brocomax, my lungs were very inflamed due to dust, saw dust and air pollution exposure. I seem to have a sensitivity to airborne irritants and have a history of chronic bronchitis. When my airways inflame, I lose energy, gasp for breath doing minimal excercise like walking or even talking to someone. Its been an issue for years.

 

After taking 2 caps of brocomax on an empty stomach per day, I had noticeable relief via improvement of my breathing, opening of my airways and sinuses (very notable due to the fact my left sinus is never open) and energy levels. After a month these improvements have not gone away and I continue to take 1 cap morning and evening. I also seem to be sleeping better..but this may relate to simply being able to breathe better.

 

Out of curiosity, I may try upping the dose..but on the whole Im pretty happy with 2 caps.

 

I do sprouting as well, and have not noticed this profound of an effect from consuming them. I do feel a little more energy but not the anti-inflammation aspects.


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#46 Skyguy2005

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:59 PM

Personally what I feel from these supplements is:

Broccoli Extract/Sulphoraphane: Unpleasant taste, and then nothing

Nicotinamide Riboside: Zingy taste, and then hmm, something, a bit like niacin really, cool

Resveratrol: Unpleasant taste, and then BAM! I feel 10 billion years younger f*** f*** f*** it's amazing! BAM!


Edited by Skyguy2005, 11 January 2017 - 06:06 PM.

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#47 mrak1979

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

Should Broccoli Extract/Sulphoraphane be taken with or without food?



#48 sthira

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:25 PM

Should Broccoli Extract/Sulphoraphane be taken with or without food?


Fairly certain that you're not getting any sulforaphane from a commodity broccoli supplement. If you read the label it might indicate you're getting glucoraphanin, which might not provide benefits. But the good news is that raw crucifers like broccoli sprouts might catalyze the myraosinase enzyme reaction to sulforaphane. So if you swallow your broccoli pill with a serving of raw crucifers maybe you're good to go.

Science rumblings seem to indicate that prebiotics might prime the gut to possibly better utilize the stuff. Eat some Jerusalem artichokes, for example, they're delicious and healthy either raw or cooked.

#49 BieraK

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:06 AM

What do you think about this?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27470577


Role of Keap1-Nrf2 signaling in depression and dietary intake of glucoraphanin confers stress resilience in mice.
Abstract

The transcription factor Keap1-Nrf2 system plays a key role in inflammation which is involved in depression. We found lower expression of Keap1 and Nrf2 proteins in the prefrontal cortex (PFC), CA3 and dentate gyrus (DG) of hippocampus in mice with depression-like phenotype compared to control mice. Serum levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines in Nrf2 knock-out (KO) mice were higher than those of wild-type mice, suggestive of enhanced inflammation in KO mice. Decreased brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and its receptor tropomyosin-receptor-kinase B (TrkB) signaling in the PFC, CA3 and DG plays a role in the depression-like phenotype of Nrf2 KO mice. TrkB agonist 7,8-dihydroxyflavone, but not antagonist ANA-12, produced antidepressant effects in Nrf2 KO mice, by stimulating TrkB in the PFC, CA3 and DG. Pretreatment with Nrf2 activator sulforaphane (SFN) prevented the depression-like phenotype induced after repeated social defeat stress. Interestingly, dietary intake of 0.1% glucoraphanin (a precursor of SFN) containing food during juvenile and adolescent stages also prevented the depression-like phenotype evoked in adulthood, after repeated social defeat stress. These findings suggest that Keap1-Nrf2 system plays a key role in depression and that dietary intake of SFN-rich food during juvenile stages and adolescence can confer stress resilience in adulthood.


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#50 steelsky

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 03:44 PM

Is it possible to supplement a broccoli extract with myrosinase enzymes in case it doesn't include it?

I've ordered two brands with sulforaphane, one including a bland with these enzymes and the other only sulforaphane from extract, so would it be effective in getting benefits from the latter if I take it with the former?



#51 sthira

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

Is it possible to supplement a broccoli extract with myrosinase enzymes in case it doesn't include it?
I've ordered two brands with sulforaphane, one including a bland with these enzymes and the other only sulforaphane from extract, so would it be effective in getting benefits from the latter if I take it with the former?


This one is advocated by Fahey in the Rhonda Patrick interview: http://www.nutramaxs...a-day-p430.aspx

I've not tried it but am tempted. Another strategy is to grind broccoli seeds and disguise them in a meal or smoothie.
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#52 Nat1971a

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:51 AM

Really great discussion. What I have found interesting is all in the last video. They talked about gut flora

Just so happens that just over a year ago I made some home made kefir yogurt with colostrum which I took for 3 to 4 weeks. This is designed to reinstate your gut flora and immune system

Antibiotics kills your gut flora. Your gut flora is the key to conversion process to sulforaphane. So anytime you have antibiotics you need to reinstate your gut flora. Gut flora has also been linked to brain function.

#53 Nat1971a

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:02 AM

Here's a really good article on reinstating your gut flora. It mentions briefly about kefir and fluoride among other things

http://articles.merc...t-bacteria.aspx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Nat1971a, 14 January 2017 - 01:05 AM.


#54 sthira

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 04:07 AM

Here's a really good article on reinstating your gut flora. It mentions briefly about kefir and fluoride among other things

http://articles.merc...t-bacteria.aspx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And since probiotics eat prebiotics, we shall eat prebiotics to feed probiotics: raw asparagus, onions, garlic, Jerusalem artichokes, dandelion greens, chicory root, googles of creatures living within must eat. Feed them well. Likely they rule us, certainly they outnumber our cells. We are skin housing for bacteria, and we move through space thinking we're in control.
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#55 Nat1971a

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:18 AM

Ok I am reporting that my right Achilles that hasn't healed for over a year appears to have healed after taking niagen

Not sure if anybody has reported this before. It has been several weeks and I have been walking heaps with no issues
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#56 albedo

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:33 PM

 

Is it possible to supplement a broccoli extract with myrosinase enzymes in case it doesn't include it?
I've ordered two brands with sulforaphane, one including a bland with these enzymes and the other only sulforaphane from extract, so would it be effective in getting benefits from the latter if I take it with the former?


This one is advocated by Fahey in the Rhonda Patrick interview: http://www.nutramaxs...a-day-p430.aspx

I've not tried it but am tempted. Another strategy is to grind broccoli seeds and disguise them in a meal or smoothie.

 

 

Also consider the  French supplement which performed very positively on Fahey's trials: http://www.prostapha...rostaphane.html

It is not available in US yet though as he said during the (excellent) interview.



#57 mrkosh1

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:50 PM

ALA definitely has a noticeable effect when I took it. Nicotinamide Riboside had no noticeable effect and seems to be pure hype. It is also very expensive. On the other hand Pterostilbene has a more noticeable effect but is much cheaper. Why not combine ALA with Pterostilbene instead?

 

It looks like I may end up with enough extra money to purchase a couple supplements. I'm trying to figure out what I want to purchase, because my funds will be limited.

 

Alpha Lipoic Acid is near the top of my list. I have three or four LEF brand R-ALA capsules remaining. I really like the feeling I get if I take one. Basically, for the next couple days my energy level and endurance goes up a notch, and if I eat high carb foods I don't crash as easily. Interestingly, although I'm not sure by which mechanisms, ALA is said to upregulate the SIRT genes, PGC1a (which then goes on to activate hTERT to extend telomeres), and NRF2. However, I'm pretty sure Alpha Lipoic Acid is a far weaker NRF2 activator than sulforaphane.

 

Next on my list is Nicotinamide Riboside. I think this would be synergistic with ALA, because while NR doesn't increase the actual protein amount of the SIRTS ALA actually increases the protein amount. So by combining ALA and NR I'd have increased SIRT activity and more SIRT protein.

 

Finally, there is sulforaphane. I am very seriously thinking about growing broccoli sprouts. Literally, I don't think we know of any plant compound that is more biologically active than this compound. It activates NRF2 more potently than any other plant compound. The NRF2 pathway indirectly boosts the SIRTS and activates NQO1. Having NQO1 active would increase the levels of NAD+.

 

I'm leaning towards getting a supply of NR first (so I have more building blocks for the SIRTS) and then decide between ALA and a supply of broccoli seeds to sprout.



#58 mrkosh1

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:56 PM

Is it possible to supplement a broccoli extract with myrosinase enzymes in case it doesn't include it?

I've ordered two brands with sulforaphane, one including a bland with these enzymes and the other only sulforaphane from extract, so would it be effective in getting benefits from the latter if I take it with the former?

 

So you found a supplement that claims to be pure sufloraphane? If so, that is pretty exciting. The makers of Sulforadex claim that sulforaphane is unstable and would not survive long. Can you share the product with us? If the cost is not too high it could be a solution.



#59 chung_pao

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 03:24 PM

Why not just use Berberine? For AMPK activatio .

Using Chinese herbs as a source.

I have tested most of the things mentioned here.
Including Andrographis Paniculata. (High doses have too many side effects. Don't even try...)

Most potent source for Berberine, resulting in ampk activation:

Rhizoma Coptidis.
Or Scutellaria Baicalensis.
See Examine.com for references.

Most potent was Rhizoma Coptidis.
In TCM it's called Huang Lian.
https://tcmwiki.com/wiki/huang-lian
Berberine is what makes it yellow. Meaning concentration is very high.

Side effects:
Inhibition of protein synthesis and many anabolic pathways.
Some inhibition of cholesterol biosynthesis.
All the usual stuff occurring downstream of AMPK.

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#60 chung_pao

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

(Why Chinese herbs?
Because I think natural sources have higher potency and lower side effects.
Due to cofactors, synergists and such-and-such.
Such as using Artichoke extract instead of isolated luteolin for pde inhibition (concluded to be superior, here on longecity).)





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sulfora, sulforaphane, nicotinamide riboside, nad+, sirt1, ampk, nrf2, pgc1a, bioavailability, potency

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