13 replies to this topic

[DehXable]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to check this out. I'm attempting to build a stack that will help me with my studies. I'm a math/CS student. My main goals in descending order of priority are: consistent motivation/energy, stronger and longer focus, better memory, increased abstraction.

Study lifestyle
Phenylpiracetam (stimulation, general cognition, memory; tolerance*)
Caffeine + Theanine (stimulation; focus; stress)
Oxiracetam (general cognition, memory, auditory perceptibility, logical/linear thinking)
Noopept (general cognition, memory)
Sunifiram (general cognition, memory)
Fish oil (general health)
Ashwagandha (neuroprotective; stress)
CDP Choline (cholinergic; dopamine receptor density; prodrug for uridine)

Lion's Mane?
Uridine?
Vinpocetine? (memory; bloodflow)
ALCAR? (memory; energy)
Gotu Kola? (increased neuronal growth – length of dendrites; stress)
NAC?
Bacopa?

The second half of the list with the question marks are additions I'm still considering. I haven't worked out dosages yet, but I intend to work my way up gradually until I find a sweet spot.

Can anyone offer any advice? Are there any possible bad combinations here? Any better alternatives for my goals? Tips? General comments or questions?

Any response is appreciated. Thanks.

[jadamgo]

I think it would be best to start out with the things highlighted in bold, except noopept, to begin with. (Noopept is very strong and when you're trying it out, it should be the only thing whose dosage you're messing with.) You could add noopept later and get the dose worked out for it, and then start looking into adding the other stuff you put question marks by.

[DehXable]

I think it would be best to start out with the things highlighted in bold, except noopept, to begin with. (Noopept is very strong and when you're trying it out, it should be the only thing whose dosage you're messing with.) You could add noopept later and get the dose worked out for it, and then start looking into adding the other stuff you put question marks by.

Thanks! Weirdly enough, of all these noots, Noopept is the one I have the most experience with. I've taken pretty large doses, and the only side effects I've noticed is a little irritability and blunted emotions.

Speaking of which, does anyone know how to counteract the blunted emotions that can occur with racetams?

[boythatssomebreath]

This stack sounds a little excessive - even just the items in bold sound like overkill. You are combining at least four strong nootropics... I'm wondering if all of this is needed? Ok... I have to admit, I'm intrigued. Please post your results. Damn you...lol

[DehXable]

This stack sounds a little excessive - even just the items in bold sound like overkill. You are combining at least four strong nootropics... I'm wondering if all of this is needed? Ok... I have to admit, I'm intrigued. Please post your results. Damn you...lol

I've definitely considered that all my racetams could be overkill. Maybe it would be a good idea for me to experiment with different combinations of racetams; I might save myself some money.

[boythatssomebreath]

I subscribe to the idea that more isn't necessarily always better. Keeping a stack log is a good idea. You may be able to save yourself some serious cash by cutting out excessive nootropics that you are taking. A good way to do this is by basically starting with a nootropic at a time, and testing how you respond to different amounts. I actually was able to completely eliminate Sulbutamine this way. Discovered that it wasn't doing anything for me, at any amount. By the way, cool profile pic - reminds me of Tool artwork.

[DehXable]

I subscribe to the idea that more isn't necessarily always better. Keeping a stack log is a good idea. You may be able to save yourself some serious cash by cutting out excessive nootropics that you are taking. A good way to do this is by basically starting with a nootropic at a time, and testing how you respond to different amounts. I actually was able to completely eliminate Sulbutamine this way. Discovered that it wasn't doing anything for me, at any amount. By the way, cool profile pic - reminds me of Tool artwork.

The log is a good suggestion. I'll open one up once I have my complete stack. And, thanks

[theconomist]

I wouldn't say it's necessarly overkill; it depends on what you're trying to achieve. I for one know for example that noopept doesn't do much to me; wether I'm taking 10mg or 300mg, the only reason it's in my stack is because I still have a lot left over.

I would love to see a staack log. Good luck.

[Deep Thought]

"...The study was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), and involved more than 1.2 million Swedish men. The men were performing military service and were born between the years 1950 and 1976. Both their physical and IQ test scores were reviewed by the research team.
The results of the analysis reveal a clear link between physical fitness and IQ test scores. In particular, verbal comprehension and logical thinking show the greatest association with fitness. "...
Source: http://www.ironmanma...vity-and-smarts

Cognition is most correlated with increased cardiovascular fitness and less so with muscular fitness.

Cardiovascular exercise also favorably alters the expressions of around 7000 genes. So if you're not exercising daily, you should be.
Source: http://www.deccanchr...-your-dna-study

Here's a short workout extrapolating on the fact that HIT training offers many benefits in a shorter amount of time, as compared to traditional endurance training. (There's strong evidence for this.)
Source: http://well.blogs.ny...e-workout/?_r=0

Several scientists have cited a correlation between eating healthy and cognition. You may want to look into that too, if you're not already doing it.

***
The most effective combination of nootropics I've yet tried, is the CILTEP, TULIP and Uridine stack, with noopept thrown in.

Consider eating fish instead of taking fish oil. Herring is cheap, if the price bothers you (it does for me).

M3 (Magnesium gluconate/tauriante, zinc picolinate, B6 vitamin and malic acid) gave me a noticeable boost in motivation when I took it.

CILTEP -> http://www.longecity...ly-induced-ltp/
TULIP -> lostfalco.
Mr happy's uridine stack -> http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

Edited by Deep Thought, 13 October 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[DehXable]

"...The study was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), and involved more than 1.2 million Swedish men. The men were performing military service and were born between the years 1950 and 1976. Both their physical and IQ test scores were reviewed by the research team.
The results of the analysis reveal a clear link between physical fitness and IQ test scores. In particular, verbal comprehension and logical thinking show the greatest association with fitness. "...
Source: http://www.ironmanma...vity-and-smarts

Cognition is most correlated with increased cardiovascular fitness and less so with muscular fitness.

Cardiovascular exercise also favorably alters the expressions of around 7000 genes. So if you're not exercising daily, you should be.
Source: http://www.deccanchr...-your-dna-study

Here's a short workout extrapolating on the fact that HIT training offers many benefits in a shorter amount of time, as compared to traditional endurance training. (There's strong evidence for this.)
Source: http://well.blogs.ny...e-workout/?_r=0

Several scientists have cited a correlation between eating healthy and cognition. You may want to look into that too, if you're not already doing it.

***
The most effective combination of nootropics I've yet tried, is the CILTEP, TULIP and Uridine stack, with noopept thrown in.

Consider eating fish instead of taking fish oil. Herring is cheap, if the price bothers you (it does for me).

M3 (Magnesium gluconate/tauriante, zinc picolinate, B6 vitamin and malic acid) gave me a noticeable boost in motivation when I took it.

CILTEP -> http://www.longecity...ly-induced-ltp/
TULIP -> lostfalco.
Mr happy's uridine stack -> http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

How exactly do you combine the Uridine and CILTEP stack? I remember reading they don't mix so well

[Deep Thought]

I remember reading that. Here's a link: http://www.longecity...dhaagpc-stacks/

Is this what you're referring to? Low serotonin as a result of combining CILTEP and uridine?

As for how I combine them - I just take 250 mg of uridine ump with 15ml flaxseed oil and whatever EPA and DHA I get from fish.

[abelard lindsay]

I remember reading that. Here's a link: http://www.longecity...dhaagpc-stacks/

Is this what you're referring to? Low serotonin as a result of combining CILTEP and uridine?

As for how I combine them - I just take 250 mg of uridine ump with 15ml flaxseed oil and whatever EPA and DHA I get from fish.

Hmm.. Maybe there's something going on with the extra fish oil you're taking. Maybe it's addressing some nutritional deficiency that would otherwise be caused by CILTEP+Uridine.

Let's see...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21740919

Epidemiological and dietary studies show that nutritional deficit of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (ω-3 PUFA) is directly related to the prevalence and severity of depression.
...
The data indicated a robust antidepressant effect produced by this supplementation and that treatment of the rats with WAY 100135 reversed this effect.
...
In 90 day-old rats, 5-HT content in the hippocampus was increased, whereas 5-HIAA formation was diminished in the fish oil group.
...

Soooooo.. might be something to this. I'll have to try this stack again with a lot of fish oil...

[Deep Thought]

I sometimes take 5-HTP, zinc, vitamin c and a b vitamin complex. The theory is, that 5-HTP increases 5-HT in the synaptic cleft 50 fold.
So if this stack causes low serotonin through some mechanism, I'm well protected.

Edited by Deep Thought, 22 October 2013 - 03:13 AM.

[ken_shiro]

I am trying this stack. It works well for me.
I take it basically 2-3 times a day (except sunifiram, max 15mg/day)

noopept 10-15mg+
ump stack: uridine 300mg + citicoline sodium 300mg + fish oil
alpha-gpc 800mg +
sunifiram 10mg

L-Phenylalanine 400mg
L-Theanine 400mg



Can be a good idea to add either waklert (300-400mg/day) or "200mg caffeine + 200mg L-Theanine" (2-3 times a day).

And I want to try to add coluracetam (3x10mg/day) and PRL-8-53

Edited by ken_shiro, 25 January 2014 - 02:06 PM.