2503 replies to this topic

[ambivalent]

What is your reason for adding Ritalin to it?

In general I wouldn’t add something to the protocol unless there were a very good reason because it is already pretty novel as it is.

 

 

I believe confectman is just asking whether or not s/he can carry on taking ritalin during the protocol rather than suggesting it as a possible enhancement.

Edited by ambivalent, 15 November 2022 - 03:10 PM.

[stephen_b]

I have been trying a tweak on the stem cell protocol for my two fission days. I replaced half of N+R with NMN (so instead of a gram each of niacinamide and d-ribose, I do a half gram of each plus a gram of NMN (Trehealtt brand ordered from Amazon; I know there has been some news lately about the actual NMN content in some brands). I wanted to see if the reports of increased muscle tone were seen.

 

The answer seems to be yes for me. I am on my 3rd round now, and after the 1st 2 I noticed better muscle tone and also better ease of running longer distances. I'm not running as fast as I was 9 years ago, but I don't have the same base that I did then either. I also seem to have lost a few pounds (BMI going from 24.7 to about 23.4.

[Gern]

Doesn't sound like epigenetic age. You can get an epigenetic age report from https://trumelabs.com for1/6th the cost of this innerage product. As for your other question, I would do the fusion part with the fast, and the fission part when you stop the fast. And you should get tested before you begin to see if you've improved.

At your suggestion, I tried the https://trumelabs.com test. In addition, I am trying the one from https://trudiagnostic.com. Along with InnerAge and InsideTracker I have a pretty good picture of both epigenetic age and health factors.

 

The TruMeLabs test says my epigenetic age is 9.3 years younger than chronological. At 2 months from turning  65, my hair is still long and blond (with greying sideburns,) my wrinkles are few, and I am told I look young for my age, so it's not entirely impossible. As for why. Who knows? I do lots of manual labor (digging, hauling tree branches, and other yard work). I walk 10,000 steps a day, take supplements, and I have been fasting between 12-16 hours a day for years.

 

The TruDiagnositcs test says two things. It says my epigenetic age is 2.8 years younger than chronological. Then it says my intrinsic epigenetic age is about 7.3 years younger than chronological using their prior algorithm. I just got the results today, so I'm not sure what that means.

 

My bloodwork shows nothing unusual for my age. My A1C is 5.3 (which is typical) so not pre-diabetic but elevated. My HDL is a bit high, but my HDL./LDL ratio is in a good range. Other than that, no pronounced problems,

 

I started the protocol after talking the tests. I eat the brownie 5 hours before ending my fast and take the C60 stack 2 hours before ending it. I noticed a few things the day after the first dose of C60:

 

1) Almost all the shows I watch have subtitles and they can sometimes be difficult to read (due to a prior radial keratotomy and a slight clouding of my lenses), so I'm sensitive to my vision. I noticed an improvement the next day after the first does of C60. Things seem less cloudy and indistinct.

 

2) The next day after the C60 walking seemed more effortless. It felt as if I could keep going much farther and it was less of a chore. This was after taking the Fission stack, so that might be a factor.

 

3) I am doing Mandarin Chinese lessons (Pimsleur) and it actually is a pretty good way to see how my cognition is. The day after the first dose of C60 I did an entire lesson with no mistakes, which hasn't happened before. Often my concentration drifts or I stumble on a word or grammar construct.

 

4) My back can be stiff after sitting for a while following strenuous physical activity. That vanished overnight and hasn't returned.

 

Since them, the feeling of physical activity and exercise being easier has persisted, my vision continues to improve, and my mood has generally been better (falls are a bad season for my mood in general.) None of the changes reaches the level of earth-shattering. They are all pretty subtle, but noticeable and too pronounced and persistent to be mere chance. The protocol has many things I don't regularly take (Steric Acid, Lecithin, Dyhidromerictin, C60, Glutathione, AKG, AAKG, Lysine, and Methionine), so it might be difficult to attribute the changes to the protocol rather than a specific supplement. However, it is encouraging. I will report back again in Feb when I get another round of epigenetic and health tests.

Edited by Gern, 15 November 2022 - 10:11 PM.

[naxleo]

According to this study,

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/36371959/,

nicotinamide riboside uptake may result in a significant increase in cancer prevalence and metastases of a type of breast cancer to the brain.

 

Can this be explained as the effect of an increased cell proliferation occurring in the fission state induced by nicotinamide riboside?

 

The effect with nicotinamide + ribose should be the same or even larger, according to Turnbuckle.

 

I think this may be relevant for the protocol in this thread, in that is a suggestion that one of the underlying mechanisms truly works as expected.

[Kelvin]

My friend has ADHS and longtime prescribed on this medication.

So it would be interesting to learn wether the are interactions with this substance.

 

 

 

Although I wouldn't say pharmaceuticals like ritalin should never be used to treat mental problems (because not everything can be treated by supplements) I am sceptical of how widely they are used, especially for those under 25 who have not yet completed neurological development.

 

For example, Turnbuckle mentioned that SSRIs seem to work initially but fail later because they deplete neural stem cell pools.  Which is not a problem for those of us who are using Turnbuckle's stem cell renewal program, but it is a very large problem (if SSRIs deplete neural stem cells) for the public at large because, at most, only a few hundred people in the world have tried the C60 protocol.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that anti-depressant/mental health medications like ritalin and prozac are a large factor in the spate of school shootings, and general behavioral/psychological problems affecting today's young.

 

I think a better idea than combining ritalin with the protocol would be to try the mito fission-fusion protocol a couple of times to see if that clears things up.

 

If it doesn't work, then another option is adding 5-HTP which has SSRI effects.

 

I list this as an option because in October I tried 3 cycles of C60 with 5-HTP and noticed cognitive benefits.

 

Previously, in February and March of this year I did the C60 protocol 6 times without 5-HTP.

 

I did not use the protocol again until October when I added 5-HTP.

 

The reason I added 5-HTP was because I wanted to use its SSRI effect to try and cycle neural stem cells from parts of the brain (like the hippocampus) that can regenerate because they have stem cell pools and circulate those stem cells more broadly to reach parts of the brain (like the frontal lobes) that cannot regenerate, or have very limited regenerative capacity because they do not have stem cell pools.

 

I believe it worked well for me.  

 

Although I had cognitive benefits from the 6 cycles I had earlier in February-March (such as reduced sleep requirements) the cognitive boost I have noticed after October's 3 cycles has been even better.

 

I am able to think more clearly in stressful situations and my problem solving abilities in particular seem to have improved.

 

At first I wondered if this was because of the 5-HTP but I only tried 100 mgs per cycle and haven't used it since.

 

The benefits have held up which makes me suspect (although I am not 100% certain) that adding 5-HTP is creating new neural connections in areas of the brain that do not have stem cells and which would not benefit from the C60 cycle if 5-HTP is not used to circulate stem cells more broadly across all regions of the brain.

 

I'll post below my updated protocol which includes 5-HTP.

 

 

WARNING - I strongly recommend replacing SAM-e with TMG for a methyl donor source regardless of whether one uses 5-HTP with the protocol.  The reason I dropped SAM-e and now only use TMG for methyl groups is not because SAM-e doesn't work but because 5-HTP should not be combined with SAM-e and I don't want risk accidentally using SAM-e at the same time I am using 5-HTP with the protocol. 

 

It is easier to avoid mixing them up by never using SAM-e with the C60 cycle, regardless of whether or not I am using 5-HTP. 

 

However, I continue to use SAM-e once month with phosphatidylcholine when I am not on the C60 protocol because of the liver protective effects of SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine.

 

I have also dropped Nicotinamide Riboside chloride both to save money and because NRcl is too slow acting.

 

Instead I now take 500 mgs Nicotinamide and 500 mgs d-Ribose each in seperate capsules.

 

 

 

Here is my C60 protocol.

 

It is similar to Turnbuckle's but I use capsules instead of blending them, except for olive oil C60 which I take a teaspoon of.

 

Also I do not make brownies.

 

My C60 bottle is double wrapped in aluminum foil and put in the freezer to prevent it from being exposed to light (which degrades C60's stability and can make it toxic) and to preserve C60's molecular structure.  

 

I only take it out of the freezer the night before I use it and place it (still wrapped in aluminum) in a dark closet overnight.  After I briefly take the teaspoon of olive oil I double wrap the bottle of C60 again with aluminum foil and place it back in the freezer.

 

I replace the bottle every 6 months (even if it is still full) and buy a new one to ensure the purity of the C60.

 

My version of the protocol spreads out the different components across 20-30 minutes to make it easier to take so many supplements, otherwise I get nauseus if I try to take the capsules all at once-

 

 

 

***** 0 hour *****

 

2 to 3 grams Dihydromyricetin (I find 4 grams to be draining)

2 grams Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent blood pressure from rising because of the fusion agents)

3 grams AAKG (Swanson Vitamins brand)

 

 

 

***** 10 to 20 minutes later *****

 

1 gram Liposomal Glutathione 

1 gram AKG (Now using Double Wood's AKG instead of Simplesa)

100 mgs Sulforaphane (2 capsules)

500 or 1,000 mgs  TMG

 

-------->  100 mgs HTP-5 (Note - This is optional and could be done once after every 3 to 4 cycles.  Do NOT take more than 100 mgs of 5-HTP in a 24 hour period.  Do not combine SAM-e and 5-HTP) 

 

 

***** 10 minutes later *****

 

--------> 500 mgs Astragalus Root Extract (Use astralagus root every 10th cycle)

 

2 grams Methionine

2 grams Lysine

 

3 mgs C60 oil capsules (Taken AFTER having every other supplement)

 

 

 

*** Take the same amino acids (2 grams methionine and 2 grams lysine) whenever you feel sleepy, or, every 1 - 3 hours for that day and the next three days to keep feeding your stem cells.   

 

Remember to have LOTS of methionine and lysine supplements available because you will feel sleepy if you don't feed your stem cells with these two amino acids.  

 

I recommend having 500 capsules of lysine and 500 capsules of methionine with 500 mgs per capsule on hand whenever doing the C60 cycle.

 

 

 

*** Senolytics.  The day after taking C60 take senolytics and fission promoters once in the morning for 2 days, but not more than 3 days.  One could also drop the senolytics if you aren't seeing benefits and just use AAKG, N+R, and NMN for fission promotion.

 

 

3 grams AAKG 

500 mgs Fisetin (Senolytic.  Can be reduced to 100 mgs if one stops feeling an effect from them)

500 mgs Quercetin (Senolytic)

1 gram Curcumin (Senolytic)

500 mgs Nicotinamide 

500 mgs d-Ribose

750 mgs NMN (UltraHealth brand)

 

[Kelvin]

I am on my 3rd round now, and after the 1st 2 I noticed better muscle tone and also better ease of running longer distances. I'm not running as fast as I was 9 years ago, but I don't have the same base that I did then either. I also seem to have lost a few pounds (BMI going from 24.7 to about 23.4.

I can also run on a treadmill longer and run faster than before.

In addition to reaching muscle tissue more easily than NR, NMN also reaches blood vessels and the heart more easily.
Turnbuckle's blood pressure issues, which he says persist despite having used the C60 cycle hundreds of times already, might be alleviated further if he added NMN for a couple cycles.

And, like you, I have also noticed that it is now trivially easy to keep pounds.
Especially on my keto/Dr. Atkins diet I lose weight almost effortlessly.

According to this study,
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/36371959/,
nicotinamide riboside uptake may result in a significant increase in cancer prevalence and metastases of a type of breast cancer to the brain.

Can this be explained as the effect of an increased cell proliferation occurring in the fission state induced by nicotinamide riboside?

The effect with nicotinamide + ribose should be the same or even larger, according to Turnbuckle.

I think this may be relevant for the protocol in this thread, in that is a suggestion that one of the underlying mechanisms truly works as expected.

Cancer mitochondria usually exist in a very fissioned state relative to the mitochondria of healthy cells.

Edited by Kelvin, 16 November 2022 - 12:51 AM.

[Kelvin]

One other benefit I have noticed after trying 5-HTP with protocol is that my nicotine hit from using Swedish snus is smoother and more enjoyable. It feels kind of like a more focused and relaxed mental state.

[Repack Racing]

I have been trying a tweak on the stem cell protocol for my two fission days. I replaced half of N+R with NMN (so instead of a gram each of niacinamide and d-ribose, I do a half gram of each plus a gram of NMN (Trehealtt brand ordered from Amazon; I know there has been some news lately about the actual NMN content in some brands). I wanted to see if the reports of increased muscle tone were seen.

 

The answer seems to be yes for me. I am on my 3rd round now, and after the 1st 2 I noticed better muscle tone and also better ease of running longer distances. I'm not running as fast as I was 9 years ago, but I don't have the same base that I did then either. I also seem to have lost a few pounds (BMI going from 24.7 to about 23.4.

 

stephen:

 

NMN definitely has benefits.  However, two quick notes:

 

1. NMN has been shown to increase telomeres quite significantly over 90 days.  There was a link to the study earlier in this thread.  As such, it may not be great with the stem cell protocol.  Where as nico and NR both "stabilize" telomeres.  Just food for thought.  I stopped NMN and will taking during a specific telomere protocol.  I take nico + ribose and NR on mito days.  We will see how it goes!

 

2.  The brand that showed the most NMN is ProHealth Longevity.  It is affordable on Amazon and comes in a 100 gram powdered version.
 

[Learner056]

Am I the only one here that is doing 'one meal a day'?  I have observed the fusion protocol is sensitive to meal eating times and I suspect that may have bearing on the BP rise issue. There are 2 methods to know such things: a) one asking hard questions i.e. understanding framework - secret sauce (but sadly relevant interest stakeholders will not want to), b) just collecting the data and extrapolating from there.  I assume this should not be this hard and by now it should have been known - meal timing OMAD impact.   

 

Importantly, to ignore "BP" raise, or to suppress it, is not that smart. I feel step1 in figuring it out is meal timing.  I suspect DHM is playing a role.  For those taking stearic in shake or cookies, it is less an issue as it is implicitly a meal by itself. 

 

Closest analog to DHM I have past experience is ALA (lipoic).  They work similar (ALA is Fusion/Biogenesis inducer through OPA1 and PGC-1a > NRF system.  DHM is PGC-1a > TFAM and PGC-1a > MFN system).  We do know on ALA, for optimal results, one should ideally avoid meal within 2 hrs of taking ALA, longer wait is fine.  I have applied same principal on DHM however I fear waiting too long after meals, DHM may be causing strain on system - I don't know, I want to know what is the data collected on it so far (i.e. what others have observed).  In short, what is effect of eating right after taking DHM, vs eating long after taking DHM? 

[kurt9]

You do not want to use ALA unless its done by the chelation protocol. ALA is a chelator and can cause harm if improperly used.

 

https://www.maybeits.../books-for-sale

 

I've done this protocol for a total of 3 years over the past 15 years and can vouch for its efficacy.

[Learner056]

Why would that be?

 

You do not want to use ALA unless its done by the chelation protocol. ALA is a chelator and can cause harm if improperly used.

 

 

[kurt9]

ALA removes Mercury and other heavy metals from the body. But its a transport chain that has to be maintain on a 3-4 hour schedule for 3 days per week. If you take ALA without adhering to the schedule, you can end up concentrating that Mercury into the brain, where you definitely do not want it.

[stephen_b]

stephen:

 

NMN definitely has benefits.  However, two quick notes:

 

1. NMN has been shown to increase telomeres quite significantly over 90 days.  There was a link to the study earlier in this thread.  As such, it may not be great with the stem cell protocol.  Where as nico and NR both "stabilize" telomeres.  Just food for thought.  I stopped NMN and will taking during a specific telomere protocol.  I take nico + ribose and NR on mito days.  We will see how it goes!

 

2.  The brand that showed the most NMN is ProHealth Longevity.  It is affordable on Amazon and comes in a 100 gram powdered version.
 

 

Thanks for the advice. I suspect that the benefits to muscle from taking NMN will stick around for a while and so taking it each time I do a stem cell round might not be needed. I'll lay off for the time being and see how that holds out.

 

Next I'm going to order another TruMe and see how things are progressing.

[Kelvin]

Thanks for the advice. I suspect that the benefits to muscle from taking NMN will stick around for a while and so taking it each time I do a stem cell round might not be needed. I'll lay off for the time being and see how that holds out.

Next I'm going to order another TruMe and see how things are progressing.

Telomeres in that study were lengthened in test subjects who dosed NMN every day for 90 days with telomere length measured every 30 days. Length was positively correlated the longer the study went on.

So telomere lengthening should only be a problem with continuous dosing.

NMN shouldn’t cause a telomere length problem if doing C60 protocol occasionally (like once a month) or only occasionally on C60’s two fission days. So if one is worried you could take NMN on 1 of the 2 fission days.

Otherwise you will miss out on NMNs considerable muscular and circulatory benefits when combined with the protocol, as I suspect Turnbuckle missed out considering his ongoing high blood pressure problem -

NAD+ replacement therapy with nicotinamide riboside does not improve cardiac function in a model of mitochondrial heart disease.

https://faseb.online...pplement.602.15

Nicotinamide mononucleotide supplementation reverses vascular dysfunction and oxidative stress with aging in mice

https://onlinelibrar...1111/acel.12461

Edited by Kelvin, 17 November 2022 - 10:44 PM.

[Kelvin]

I should add that NR is beneficial for the nervous system.

Therefore, the optimal strategy is to take advantage of the fact NMN and NR work through different pathways by dosing both NMN and NR in the C60 and the mitochondrial protocol.

NMN shouldn’t be a problem on fission days unlesss one is doing many C60 cycles or mitochondria cycles within a narrow timeframe.

Edited by Kelvin, 17 November 2022 - 10:02 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I recommend only nicotinamide (with or without ribose). It's been around for 90 years and has a good safety profile. NR has to be digested before absorption, so you are mostly taking a very expensive source of N+R, while NMN is a telomerase promoter.

[Repack Racing]

Thanks for the advice. I suspect that the benefits to muscle from taking NMN will stick around for a while and so taking it each time I do a stem cell round might not be needed. I'll lay off for the time being and see how that holds out.

 

Next I'm going to order another TruMe and see how things are progressing.

 

Note to stephen and all:

 

FDA is in the process of banning NMN for sale as a supplement.  Stock up now if you want to continue use or risk future access problems.

[Kelvin]

Note to stephen and all:

FDA is in the process of banning NMN for sale as a supplement. Stock up now if you want to continue use or risk future access problems.

The FDA was just waiting for Stephen b to say he used NMN so they could cause everyone problems.

[Kelvin]

I recommend only nicotinamide (with or without ribose). It's been around for 90 years and has a good safety profile. NR has to be digested before absorption, so you are mostly taking a very expensive source of N+R, while NMN is a telomerase promoter.

By NR I did not mean Nicotinamide ribosome chloride. I just meant nicotinamide and d ribose in separate capsules because It is absorbed much faster and to save cost. I just recently dropped NRcl for those reasons.

As for NMN any risk to extending telomeres can be mitigated or eliminated by using it on 1 of the 2 fission days.

Otherwise without NMN one will miss out on some very impressive muscular and circulatory improvements that NMN can provide but N+R cannot because they affect different pathways.

Besides, N+R has to be converted into NMN to produce NAD+.

In theory this means just using NR would also extend telomeres.

Edited by Kelvin, 19 November 2022 - 07:22 PM.

[Learner056]

Where do people buy their DihydroMyricetin and brand?  Any differences in DHM sourced from: Hovenia dulcis vs Vine Tea (Ampelopsis grossedentata)?

[Repack Racing]

Where do people buy their DihydroMyricetin and brand?  Any differences in DHM sourced from: Hovenia dulcis vs Vine Tea (Ampelopsis grossedentata)?

 

I have used:

 

https://smile.amazon...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

and

 

https://smile.amazon...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Double Wood is 1g each, which is nice.  However, Double Wood quality has been questioned recently (not DMH).  NusaPure are capsules, which I prefer over tablets.  However, only 400mg each....

[Heisok]

Hi. The problem with the Double Wood product is that it is a compressed tablet with electrolytes. Could be tough to time it's availability with the other fusion supplements.

Edited by Heisok, 20 November 2022 - 08:00 PM.

[Confectman]

A question on ingredients procedure: Why GMS (MP 58C degree) can be taken cold, and Stearic Acid (MP 65C degree) need to be dissolved in either brownie or hot chocolate? 

[Repack Racing]

A question on ingredients procedure: Why GMS (MP 58C degree) can be taken cold, and Stearic Acid (MP 65C degree) need to be dissolved in either brownie or hot chocolate? 

 

Confectman,

 

I am sure others can more readily supply some sources, but in a nutshell, cooking/melting simply makes stearic acid more bioavailable.  It has also been noted in this thread that raw SA can cause digestive discomfort and have other negative effects.

 

https://www.cambridg...1F6B3F42DA7B5E0
 

GMS is inherently much more bioavailable.

Edited by ildr, 21 November 2022 - 07:31 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

"Stearic acid" that you can buy retail is roughly half stearic acid and half palmitic acid in the form of triglycerides. It has a high melting point of about 157 F, and is insoluble in water, thus consuming flakes will result in little or no absorption. Baking it into brownies will disperse it and make digestion possible, but it will still take 2-3 hours. GMS is a mix of stearic and palmitic monoglycerides with a melting point of 137 F. This may be considered "pre-digested," and thus is absorbed faster than the triglyceride. Absorption can be further improved by dissolving in hot chocolate or adding to fudge. A better fusion agent is DHM, as it is reasonably well absorbed and penetrates the BBB, while stearic acid does not. Absorption is improved by heat and/or lecithin and high shear mixing..

Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 November 2022 - 05:55 PM.

[Learner056]

Great question Confectman.  You are a rare person - one that asks smart/framework-oriented questions (which obviously go un-addressed like your Ritalin question).  I recently realized that a lot of "fusion" inducing compounds require 'cooking'.  Traditional literature provides explanations like "it brings out, releases its power or eliminate unwanted compounds", while modern science stays mum on it.   For e.g. He Shou Wu (TetrahydroxyStilbene) requires cooking, while its modern counterpart Polygonum Cuspidatum (Resveratrol) also a stilbene is super-sensitive to slightest heat.  I have yet to find a satisfying explanation. 

[joesixpack]

I wish they had emoji's that we could use to comment on the emoji's. Eventually we could have an entire post made up of nothing but emoji's.

[Empiricus]

Hi. The problem with the Double Wood product is that it is a compressed tablet with electrolytes. Could be tough to time it's availability with the other fusion supplements.

 

I put the DW tablets in a cup with few tablespoons of hot water, then nuked it for 40 seconds. The tablets became soft and I easily crushed them with a spoon.    

 

A serious matter is a recent review of DW on Amazon asserting, "Now halfway through this bottle I know that this is not the same stuff as before. Not only does it not work as well, but it causes my mouth to be very dry."    

 

I'm convinced that c60 is actually pro-aging if you're not combining it with fusion-promotion. I basically only started to visibly age when I started taking c60 a few years ago, and my visible aging slowed down when I stopped taking it. Anyway, it seems extremely important that your fusion supplement isn't junk. Since we have no way of testing these supplements, it's probably a smart practice to mix several brands of DHM.  

Edited by Empiricus, 24 November 2022 - 08:28 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I'm convinced that c60 is actually pro-aging if you're not combining it with fusion-promotion. I basically only started to visibly age when I started taking c60 a few years ago, and my visible aging slowed down when I stopped taking it. 

 

This is true, and you are not the only one to see it. Many may see an improvement when they first use it, and they may even say as I did ten years ago, this is it! But the positive results will fade, and no amount of C60 will bring it back. In fact, taking more or taking it more often will result in ever worse results. SES (ignoring the 2 failures to replicate the original experiment) is telling people to take it every day, and thus it won't be long before their stem cells get worn out. It's borrowing from Peter (your future population of SCs) to pay Paul (for your present needs). They even make this comment on their FAQs: Some people in our office take as much as 15ml twice per day. This may well be, but I consider it irresponsible without some showing of benefit. 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 November 2022 - 06:30 PM.

[Heisok]

Hi Turnbuckle,

 

It is not in your current protocol, but at one point you mentioned that skipping the Fission portion for about a month was ok. Does that still apply?

 

Which gives the short action AKG or AAKG? You use AAKG as part of the Fission portion, can AKG be used instead?

 

Empiricus, you make a good point. I already started powder DHM to go along with the tablets which I had already purchased.