9 replies to this topic

[stevep229]

Hi, new thr forum and this is my first post. I am currently diagnosed ADD (sympons correlate with those of ADD-PI w/ sluggish cognitive tempo, which i believe is not currently considered a diagnosis, but is being included in the new DSM).

Currently take 20mg generic Mixed Amp Salts XR, which has drasticly improved my cognitive functioning and reduced my symptoms. My personal desire is to keep my dosage of amp as low as possible, so i started thoroughly investigating nootropic substances that may further improve cognituve function, and help deter some of the negative effects of amp.

Currently take this as my daily regiment:

20mg generic adderal xr
CoQ10-200mg
omega 3-3g
multi-x2
Glucosa/chon/msm
ALA-400mg
DHEA-25 mg
turneric-500mg 2x day
Magnesiun-(as oxide : [ ) 750 mg
Sulbutiamine-500mg 2x a day
Piracetam-4g 2x a day
Choline citrate-2g 2x a day
Soy lecithin-1.2g 2x a day
Alacar-1g 2x a day

Ive been using this daily for the last month and found significant improvement in attention span, memory recall, verbal fluency, and overall sense of well being. These improved beyond what Amp was already helping with. Very slight problems with depression/anxiety before Amp, believed to be due to frustration with myself over an inability to accomplish goals relating to being undiagnosed, and ADD symptoms heavily influencing my life.

Just ordered:
Oxiracetam
vinpocetine
Cetrophenoxine

Ive researched them to great extent, but want more personal, specific advice on incorporating them into my current stack, whether it be one at a time, dosages, contraindications with current supps, etc. Thank you for your time, and this forum for equipping me with information to improve my quality of life.

[stevep229]

Was it my quadruple post that has deterred ppl from commenting? I now have the three new substances, and will add them one at a time and gauge any improvement. Will replace one choline cit cap with one centro cap, for the increase in centro related choline. Anyones thoughts...yet?

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[stevep229]

Also, ive researched excitotoxicity, but seems to be over-hyped, though i try to keep it in mind and make knowledgeable decisions on stimulating substances.

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[Cephalon]

Hey Steve
See below my comments/ questions/ concerns

Currently take this as my daily regiment:

20mg generic adderal xr <- Medievil should chime in - he can tell you alot about supplemental approaches to counteract building up amphetamine tollerance
CoQ10-200mg <- can you point out any benefits in taking 200mg? Do you have a medical condition - or are you on statin therapy justifying such a high dose?
omega 3-3g ✓
multi-x2 <- depends - good diet is better though - you won't need all compounds
Glucosa/chon/msm <- problems with your joints? does it help you?
ALA-400mg
DHEA-25 mg <- do you have low steroid levels? Does it help? If sex hormones is your goal there should be more reliable alternatives - without an AI this converts to estrogene quite quick - studies show it actually does the opposite people want - in men it raises estrogen in ladies test as I remember
turneric-500mg 2x day ✓
Magnesiun-(as oxide : [ ) 750 mg <- you may try another form - 750mg equal about 100% RDA correct?
Sulbutiamine-500mg 2x a day <- do you have issues with tollerance?
Piracetam-4g 2x a day ✓ though you may take smaller doses more frequently
Choline citrate-2g 2x a day that's quite alot - better take less here
Soy lecithin-1.2g 2x a day that's quite a little (110mg choline) - better take more here*
Alacar-1g 2x a day ✓

Just ordered:
Oxiracetam ✓
vinpocetine <- stop if you experiance side effects - search the board for it
Cetrophenoxine <- don't know much about that - heard not too much good about it here on longecity

* Lecithin has the advantage over choline citrate that it offers a sustained release - research shows that it is better healthwise to avoid free form choline supps like choline citrate. You may take as little as 100 - 250mg choline citrate for acute choline needs and supply your body with slow release choline through lecithin e.g. 3 x 1200mg softgels twice a day.


You may find the following active threads helpful:
http://www.longecity...ing-the-puzzle/
http://www.longecity...ly-induced-ltp/
http://www.longecity...nefits-from-it/

[stevep229]

I take Coq10 for the overall health benefits, as an anti-oxidant, and for its use against depression/anxiety. More of a preemptive supplementation. I have not had any depressive symptoms for quite some time though. Further reading has caused me to reduce the dose to 100mg a day, since ive found too much can cause a reverse effective. I have a family history of cardiac issues as well, though none personally as of yet, but taking amp makes me wary, so heart health has become important to me. The 25 mg of dhea are more for concern over increased cortisol production from amp induce increase in adrenal function. Call me out on this if i am mistaken. My current diet is not on par by any means. As far as the multi-vit and diet, still too much processed food intake, but i am 24 yrs old and work 60-70 hrs a week in the form of manual labor, so the motivation to cook and prepare foods for one person is significantly lacking. I do try for the healthiest easier options though : P Glucosa/msm/chon is for joint support. Shoulder and wrist pain, with signs of carpal tunnel developing. It has helped reduce joint pain, though it takes awhile to start making an impact.Magnesium supplementation is from my studies on amp, and that it depletes it, and the mag helps stem tolerance to amp therapeutic effects (weak nmda receptor antagonist i believe). Chelated is on the shopping list. I also believe that i am experiencing some sulbutiamine tolerance, but in all honesty i think it would be hard to gauge my tolerance to it since i am also taking adderall, but i want to try to distinguish between their stimulating effects. I have already reduced my Choline cit dose, bc i started experiencing slight depressive symptoms, and found that that can be caused by excessive choline intake. My soy lecithin is "concentrated" so i get 140mg of phos-choline per 400mg lecithin. Im still perplexed as far as the guidelines for choline supplementation with racetams, finding that some ppl use none, while others use a 1:1 ratio cho/pira. Of course ive found that ceiling of too much (depressive symptoms) but i also fear taking too little. I spend most of my waking hours on noots while at work in a 90+ degree factory, and monitoring my reaction to my choline intake, like the pressure head aches from too little choline, and distinguish it from lack of water, head aches from the heat, stress, etc (i coordinate a very complicated and fast paced half-shaft assembly line[Nexteer automotive, formerly Delphi automotive], it can rather stressful...though ive recently been approached by management, and have been asked to submit my resume for a management interview, due to my level of intelligence and driven attitude). I will try the lecithin dose 3x a day and see how i feel. Also I would like to thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I find that i easily grow impatient and forget that others have lives as busy as mine. Ill check out medievils post on amp as well. Ive used DXM to reduce amp tolerance, but i have no set regiment or detailed dosages to use, and having that info would be awesome. Odd you brought up an AI for dhea as well, bc i looked down at my desk and have a bottle of Formestane lol, though it is too suppressive on natural test to use regularly. Thanks again!

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Edited by stevep229, 26 May 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[stevep229]

Lol, was in "the zone" and realized after replying that i should have broken all that down into multiple paragraphs...

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[stevep229]

i have started cycling sulbutiamine, i def believe i started to develop a tolerance

dropped choline citrate for now

currently researching whether i should drop the Coq10 altogether for now, seeing as how it competes with methylene blue for the cytochrome oxidation inhibition, and may cause too much inhibition if used together.

bumped up lecithin by 1 capsule

hesitant to try vinpocetine

trying centro, approx 600 mg with my morning dosing. like the slight clean stimulation.

do to reading the countless MB threads i have been trying MB as well, at approx 200 mcg. i used the kordons 2.3.03% solution, and used devinthayers break down - 5ml MB added to 90ml water, creating 1.2 mg of MB per ml. I then placed this in a clear eyes eye drop bottle which i cleaned thoroughly, and approximated that i have 15 drops per ml, equaling roughly .051 grams, or 51 mcg. i use 4 drops at a time. first night trying this i barely slept at all, just didnt feel tired in any way, i didnt not feel overstimulated or anxious in any way. im staying with the very small mcg doses, seeing as how Mb has a MAOi effect (though i found that the MAOi activity is not prominent till 500mg, a rough guestimation from devinthayer, converting the IV MB dose to an oral dose). im going to keep close track of my mood and cognitive function.

i have found that i occasionally feel slight depressive symptoms, a minuscule lack of motivation, coupled with the "weight on my chest" type feeling. im am currently trying to deduce what is causing it. it is not severe in any way, just bothersome.

could this possibly be caused by too much choline again, seeing as how i pumped up the lecithin dose and am also taking centro? i could not find any equivalency info comparing x amnt centro to x amnt of choline, also, i have been slightly...gaseous since i started using MB lol

thank you very much for your time.

Edited by stevep229, 29 May 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[stevep229]

I have developed neck/jaw tension as well, so tomorrow i will take 500mg centro with my pira doses, and remove the lecithin for now.

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[Joe Black]

I have developed neck/jaw tension as well, so tomorrow i will take 500mg centro with my pira doses, and remove the lecithin for now.

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when i read the original post the first thing i thoght was drop the soul-booty-of-mine, as i like to call it, yes i know its an an AMINE(AMEAN) lol but its funny to calll it that.

stuff is just kinda dirty after while, bad joojoo there

and im assuming youre taking the football adderalls right? those are barr teva, next time call a local good neighbor network pharmacy or mom n pop(if you're in socal i can telll you places) and request only eonsandoz brand. they will be round and very thin.

if you ahe insurance ask your doc to trial you on nuvigil, everyone desribed it to me as lame,b ut holy shit does it hae a kick but not at the same time, its lke being a normal human being for 12 hours.

my doc is very ool, he even knows aout me doing cerebrolysin, we're on a basis where he make suggestions but neverone has he disagreed if i had a different opinion, and always writes what i asked for.

^ a perk from being able to help him pronounce his words cuz i was premed fo 4 years, if you can manage to get a doctor to listen to what o ure saying when you talk, its kida like hacking the matrix lol

[Joe Black]

and you got a pigschange in hill getting a carmark affiliated pharmacy do do anything approaching help or being anything but rude and short and then theres the horible cunt at eery one.

my mom and pop mails schedlle II meds, thats whats up