20 replies to this topic

[Grandmaster]

Im user of nootropics since January 2014 when i bought my first nootropic which were few hundeds mg of noopept, around month or two after it i used huperzine A which helped my short term memory and gave me pretty nice lucid dreams. Then i used 6g of noopept which lasted to may 2015 and after it some prl 8-53 and again Huperzine but not much.Now im not dosing any nootropics since january and have problem with a slight brainfog and decreased motivation. Caffeine in energy drinks seems to help me with those problems but it has some minuses like possible addiction, increasing heart beating rate and blood pressure which  are not good. How can i "fix" those problems? I thought that using phenibut may be good idea but dont know a lot about this specific nootropic. Im looking forward to your suggestions.

[OneScrewLoose]

Is the brainfog recent?

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Could try one of these:

 

CILTEP Stack: (term coined by Abelard Lindsay of Longecity)
500mg Artichoke Extract – contains Luteolin a PDE4 inhibitor
20mg Forskolin – raises c AMP levels

http://www.longecity...ly-induced-ltp/
 

Choline, Uridine, DHA (brought to public attention by MrHappy)
250mg CDP Choline
250mg Uridine – as UMP
4 gram DHA - from flax seed oil / need to avoid fish oil due to side effects

http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

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[Grandmaster]

Is the brainfog recent?

 

I think i have it since stoppage of using noopept- it was may 2015 but ithe strongest brainfog appears from time to time and caffeine seems to reduce it to minimum. I gonna check CILTEP stack but in the country where i live its probably hard to get it.

[Baten]

Honestly, I too experience more brainfog nowadays than before using nootropic stacks and the like. Could be coincidental though, could be related. It seems to be clearing up slowly but surely though, feeling the brain fog less and less often but it's definitely there, especially after a long day where I work/think for a long time. Hoping that it's more or less gone altogether some day in the future but I can't be too sure what is the cause, either.

[OneScrewLoose]

 

Is the brainfog recent?

 

I think i have it since stoppage of using noopept- it was may 2015 but ithe strongest brainfog appears from time to time and caffeine seems to reduce it to minimum. I gonna check CILTEP stack but in the country where i live its probably hard to get it.

 

 

Why did you quit the nootropics?

From the looks of what you took, I would recommend simple Piracetam + choline every day for the brain fog. If you don't want to be taking anything, you can lower it until the brain fog subsides.

[resveratrol_guy]

I would recommend organic eggs with huge amounts of extra virgin olive or coconut oil. Start there before turning to more synthetic supplements. You might add Curcubrain as well, as it's generally recognized as safe (GRAS), although it may make you tired for a while and excessively artistic (not that that's a bad thing!).

 

Read the piracetam burnout threads. Piracetam and its derivatives have caused permanent damage to some folks here. There might be a way to prevent this, and it might be genetically dependent, but I'm not aware of how. But I agree with OneScrewLoose on the choline; I just recommend getting it from eggs to start with.

 

[OneScrewLoose]

Can I get link to the piracetam burnout threads? People around here who take Piracetam also tend to take huge nootropic stacks. I have seen zero studies that Piracetam use, in doses that have shown to be clinically effective and sage, can cause damage, regardless of how long it's been used. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. Are there any studies/white papers to back this up?

[YOLF]

p-synephrine from citrus aurantia (sp?) eliminates the blood pressure effects of caffeine and gives you a nice increase in adrenaline. If you've been using them for a while, you're brain is used to being at a higher functioning state, then you stop and it feels like you're doing less, or things just don't feel as motivating anymore. You might just have to adapt to it if you want to stay off of them. Otherwise, water fasts are supposed to resensitize the brain, you could give that a try, maybe a b-complex such as from LEF.

[resveratrol_guy]

Can I get link to the piracetam burnout threads? People around here who take Piracetam also tend to take huge nootropic stacks. I have seen zero studies that Piracetam use, in doses that have shown to be clinically effective and sage, can cause damage, regardless of how long it's been used. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. Are there any studies/white papers to back this up?

 

I think one reason for the lack of studies is that piracetam seems to be effective for a few weeks or months, which is often the length of a pharmaceutical study. Apart from this, there is not really any credible financial motivation to do such a study. My own misgivings are drawn from a wide reading of Longecity posts by longterm users. As you can see in my own posts, I'm quite accepting of risk when it comes to a favorable risk/reward ratio, but I don't see that in the piracetam anecdotes. (For instance, I seem to be patient zero for intranasal NGF, which might also help the OP.)

 

You might be right: it might be due to the other noots that people tend to take along with it. But there are other supplements with a cleaner bill of field reports. I would want to see more evidence of piracetam's effectiveness. Presently, it looks like it stops working after weeks or months, at best, and causes some sort of synaptic frying at worst.

 

http://www.longecity...blems-eversince

http://www.longecity...am-irritability

http://www.longecity...severe-sweating

http://www.longecity...first-week-then

http://www.longecity...es-after-a-week

http://www.longecity...r-piracetam-use

http://www.longecity...piracetam-mania

http://www.longecity...-with-piracetam

 

I should not have said that piracetam "causes" damage. It's merely an association, at this point.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 April 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Kinesis]

Excellent point, resveratrol_guy.  Large well controlled studies are expensive, and one that would address this question would be especially so, given that it would have to be long enough for subjects to get acclimated to the drug and then follow their progress after discontinuation.  Even if it is true that there is a withdrawal effect we would be very unlikely to find something in the literature that would rise to the level of definitive proof.  Drawing inferences from the lack of available proof would be setting the bar too high.  The best we are likely to do is judgment informed by theory and anecdotal evidence.

 

Far as theory goes, on the basis of the well-established concept of homeostasis, it is common for sustained exposure to a drug to be accompanied by a physiological adjustment tending to restore homeostasis or normality.  Then upon withdrawing the drug, the user experiences something of the opposite of the drug's acute effect.  Of course rigorously extending this generality to every specific drug would be taking it too far, due to the complexity of the mechanism by which any particular drug operates and the existence of known exceptions.  But when empirical evidence is consistent with the theory, the burden of proof is reasonably shifted to the other side ... that is, instead of asking for evidence that the drug leads to contrary withdrawal symptoms, we ought to ask for evidence that it does not.

 

In this case, I wouldn't presume to reach a conclusion either way.  But I personally am leery of taking any substance that I wouldn't be prepared to take indefinitely until evidence of the latter were in hand.

 

Edited by Kinesis, 08 April 2016 - 05:52 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

It's one thing to suggest piracetam may eventually stop working for a lot of people to due homeostasis. SSRIs do that. It's a whole 'nother ball game to suggest it has caused permanent damage. Being that the body of literature over the 30+ years of its existence has shown it to be safe, the burden of proof lies with those making those statements, whether they can afford the research or not. Until I see that proof, I am going with the research at hand and airing on the side of the anecdotal evidence which claims that it caused permanent damage to be either:

 

a) The result of damage from the misuse of one's nootropic 'stack'. Some of which have 20+ ingredients around here.

b) Nocebo effect.

[resveratrol_guy]

It's one thing to suggest piracetam may eventually stop working for a lot of people to due homeostasis. SSRIs do that. It's a whole 'nother ball game to suggest it has caused permanent damage. Being that the body of literature over the 30+ years of its existence has shown it to be safe, the burden of proof lies with those making those statements, whether they can afford the research or not. Until I see that proof, I am going with the research at hand and airing on the side of the anecdotal evidence which claims that it caused permanent damage to be either:

 

a) The result of damage from the misuse of one's nootropic 'stack'. Some of which have 20+ ingredients around here.

b) Nocebo effect.

 

You may well be correct. But then, I would expect to see the same rate of horror stories, with, say, c60oo or NR. I don't.

[Kinesis]

It's one thing to suggest piracetam may eventually stop working for a lot of people to due homeostasis. SSRIs do that. It's a whole 'nother ball game to suggest it has caused permanent damage. Being that the body of literature over the 30+ years of its existence has shown it to be safe, the burden of proof lies with those making those statements, whether they can afford the research or not. Until I see that proof, I am going with the research at hand and airing on the side of the anecdotal evidence which claims that it caused permanent damage to be either:

a) The result of damage from the misuse of one's nootropic 'stack'. Some of which have 20+ ingredients around here.
b) Nocebo effect.

 

I haven't made any claims either way with respect to "damage".  On the other hand, the factors I cited (homeostasis, anecdotal evidence) raise a legitimate question as to whether it may not only stop working, but upon discontinuation produce an effect opposite its acute effect, at least until the metabolism has had time to readjust to the absence of the drug.  We're far from being in a position to make any assumptions based merely on the lack of probative studies.

Edited by Kinesis, 11 April 2016 - 06:39 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

You mean assumptions like damage?

[Kinesis]

Distilled down to its essence, my point is that the absence of studies proving X exists is not equivalent to proof that X does not exist.

[OneScrewLoose]

You're not making any points.

[lourdaud]

 

Can I get link to the piracetam burnout threads? People around here who take Piracetam also tend to take huge nootropic stacks. I have seen zero studies that Piracetam use, in doses that have shown to be clinically effective and sage, can cause damage, regardless of how long it's been used. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. Are there any studies/white papers to back this up?

 

I think one reason for the lack of studies is that piracetam seems to be effective for a few weeks or months, which is often the length of a pharmaceutical study. Apart from this, there is not really any credible financial motivation to do such a study. My own misgivings are drawn from a wide reading of Longecity posts by longterm users. As you can see in my own posts, I'm quite accepting of risk when it comes to a favorable risk/reward ratio, but I don't see that in the piracetam anecdotes. (For instance, I seem to be patient zero for intranasal NGF, which might also help the OP.)

 

You might be right: it might be due to the other noots that people tend to take along with it. But there are other supplements with a cleaner bill of field reports. I would want to see more evidence of piracetam's effectiveness. Presently, it looks like it stops working after weeks or months, at best, and causes some sort of synaptic frying at worst.

 

http://www.longecity...blems-eversince

http://www.longecity...am-irritability

http://www.longecity...severe-sweating

http://www.longecity...first-week-then

http://www.longecity...es-after-a-week

http://www.longecity...r-piracetam-use

http://www.longecity...piracetam-mania

http://www.longecity...-with-piracetam

 

I should not have said that piracetam "causes" damage. It's merely an association, at this point.

 

 

Remember that piracetam and stims/other stressors do not go well together. This is what Isochroma has been preaching all along.

Check out this post https://www.reddit.c...robably/cwe769w

[OneScrewLoose]

 

 

Can I get link to the piracetam burnout threads? People around here who take Piracetam also tend to take huge nootropic stacks. I have seen zero studies that Piracetam use, in doses that have shown to be clinically effective and sage, can cause damage, regardless of how long it's been used. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. Are there any studies/white papers to back this up?

 

I think one reason for the lack of studies is that piracetam seems to be effective for a few weeks or months, which is often the length of a pharmaceutical study. Apart from this, there is not really any credible financial motivation to do such a study. My own misgivings are drawn from a wide reading of Longecity posts by longterm users. As you can see in my own posts, I'm quite accepting of risk when it comes to a favorable risk/reward ratio, but I don't see that in the piracetam anecdotes. (For instance, I seem to be patient zero for intranasal NGF, which might also help the OP.)

 

You might be right: it might be due to the other noots that people tend to take along with it. But there are other supplements with a cleaner bill of field reports. I would want to see more evidence of piracetam's effectiveness. Presently, it looks like it stops working after weeks or months, at best, and causes some sort of synaptic frying at worst.

 

http://www.longecity...blems-eversince

http://www.longecity...am-irritability

http://www.longecity...severe-sweating

http://www.longecity...first-week-then

http://www.longecity...es-after-a-week

http://www.longecity...r-piracetam-use

http://www.longecity...piracetam-mania

http://www.longecity...-with-piracetam

 

I should not have said that piracetam "causes" damage. It's merely an association, at this point.

 

 

Remember that piracetam and stims/other stressors do not go well together. This is what Isochroma has been preaching all along.

Check out this post https://www.reddit.c...robably/cwe769w

 

 

Not being rhetorical. Please cite studies on how stims and stressors effect piracetam.
 

[lourdaud]

 

 

 

Can I get link to the piracetam burnout threads? People around here who take Piracetam also tend to take huge nootropic stacks. I have seen zero studies that Piracetam use, in doses that have shown to be clinically effective and sage, can cause damage, regardless of how long it's been used. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. Are there any studies/white papers to back this up?

 

I think one reason for the lack of studies is that piracetam seems to be effective for a few weeks or months, which is often the length of a pharmaceutical study. Apart from this, there is not really any credible financial motivation to do such a study. My own misgivings are drawn from a wide reading of Longecity posts by longterm users. As you can see in my own posts, I'm quite accepting of risk when it comes to a favorable risk/reward ratio, but I don't see that in the piracetam anecdotes. (For instance, I seem to be patient zero for intranasal NGF, which might also help the OP.)

 

You might be right: it might be due to the other noots that people tend to take along with it. But there are other supplements with a cleaner bill of field reports. I would want to see more evidence of piracetam's effectiveness. Presently, it looks like it stops working after weeks or months, at best, and causes some sort of synaptic frying at worst.

 

http://www.longecity...blems-eversince

http://www.longecity...am-irritability

http://www.longecity...severe-sweating

http://www.longecity...first-week-then

http://www.longecity...es-after-a-week

http://www.longecity...r-piracetam-use

http://www.longecity...piracetam-mania

http://www.longecity...-with-piracetam

 

I should not have said that piracetam "causes" damage. It's merely an association, at this point.

 

 

Remember that piracetam and stims/other stressors do not go well together. This is what Isochroma has been preaching all along.

Check out this post https://www.reddit.c...robably/cwe769w

 

 

Not being rhetorical. Please cite studies on how stims and stressors effect piracetam.
 

 

 

Several of the studies mentioned in that thread show that many of piracetam's effects are dependent on adequate cortisol levels.

Prolonged exposure to stress/regular use of stims will mess with the HPA axis and burn you out. Someone else can probably explain this better but from my understanding it hast to do with negative feedback loops where elevated cortisol levels inhibit the HPA which causes less ACTH to be released which in turn leads to lower cortisol levels.

All that is not so important however: from my own and many others experience, piracetam and traditional stimulants just don't go well together, that's just how it is.

[Flex]

Look into nitrendypine.

 

The user IP3 had good results, though the cause and the disease isnt the same as Yours

 

Cognitive impariment/brain fog after one night cocaine use (page 6)

http://www.longecity...e-6#entry781135