2312 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

You need at least 100-120 mg PQQ. Turnbuckle said that PQQ was the crucial supplement that made it all work. High dose required.

Do we have a reliable brand for PQQ?

[Blueflash]

Do we have a reliable brand for PQQ?

[Blueflash]

Im using a brand called BestVite. I chose it because it doesn’t have too many fillers. I can feel more focused, better memory and enhanced gym performance with it.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Bestvite seems to be an efficient operation. They do the manufacturing and distributing of more than 200 products (look above the "7-Keto" bottle on this page). Not too shabby for a company of 7 to maybe 15 employees. Their manufacturing facilities must be pretty impressive. Also, they have earned a reputation of being "The most trusted name in vitamins"--USPTO says so.  

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 18 November 2024 - 03:24 PM.

[PAMPAGUY]

https://cdn.consumerlab.com

 

 

HSN and Doublewood were cheapest per 20mg and passed test

[stephen_b]

I took 2g AAKG and 100 mg PQQ in the morning. At 6 PM that day I did a shorter 3.5 mile run which was better than average.

 

The following morning though I set a recent PR for push-ups at 60. Recently I had not been able to do more than a mid-40's count of push-ups. I wonder if the maximization of the benefits take more than 1 day.

 

I think I'm going to avoid taking the regular fission supplements (N+R 1 g, AAKG 1 g, PQQ 20 mg). The 2g AAKG and 100 mg PQQ feels much more restorative.

[kurt9]

This new protocol is cheaper and certainly much easier than the regular one.

[Repack Racing]

This protocol has had ZERO effect on anything related to athletics for me.

[stephen_b]

I was unaware of sulforaphane being a big fusion promoter.

 

Sulforaphane is a Nrf2-independent inhibitor of mitochondrial fission. 

 

We demonstrate here that the mitochondria of cultured, human retinal pigment epithelial (RPE-1) cells treated with SFN undergo hyperfusion that is independent of both Nrf2 and its cytoplasmic inhibitor KEAP1.

 

 

[stephen_b]

In Turnbuckle's earlier post on restoring mitochondrial function (link), the protocol is:

 

Fission: 500mg niacinamide, 1g AAKG, and 20mg PQQ

Fusion: 300mg DHM, 1g AAKG, and 20mg PQQ

 

I have not felt much benefit from the DHM. I'd like to propose 1g Meriva curcumin in its place, with or without Broccomax sulphurophane.

 

 

Mitochondrial Physiology and Vegetal Molecules

 

 

Curcumin has been reported to enhance the fusion activity, reduce fission machinery, and increase biogenesis and synaptic proteins. Elevation in mitochondrial function and cell viability has been shown with curcumin treatment. Curcumin might improve mitochondrial potential and ATP and restore mitochondrial fusion, probably by upregulating PGC-1α protein expression.

 

Edited by stephen_b, 10 February 2025 - 05:50 PM.

[kurt9]

Would the single dose of 100-120 mg of PQQ along with the AAGK be considered the replacement for the above/

[stephen_b]

Would the single dose of 100-120 mg of PQQ along with the AAGK be considered the replacement for the above/

 

I was under the impression that the PQQ/AAKG was for mitochondrial methylation issues he spoke of in the reversing MS article as opposed to normal mitochondrial errors.

[bullGenteel]

I was reading the updates made by Turnbuckle. I thought it sounded like he used lactic acid once for his newly devised latching method.

Im a little scatterbrained in my approach. I have had a mild to moderate concussion and I have moderate/severe ocd. I first tried the new protocol with pqq around 60-80mg 6 monnths ago, no lactic acid, like others here have tried. I used it after doing 3 or 5 day fasts that included the stem cell protocol. These took a lot out of me. It felt like it took a couple weeks to recover my strength using the old mitochondria protocol or this updated version, just using 60- 80mg pqq, no lactic acid.

I am sure I may have greater placebo or psycho somatic tendencies than the average person. I felt like I bounced back, almost immediately the day of doing the latching method with lactic acid after doing 3 day fastlt combined wi5h stem cell protocol. The first time I took 2g or roughly a teaspoon of lactic acid with 100mg of pqq or there abouts. I don't take notes. I take 2g akg and 100mg pqq and lactic acid. Than an hour or so later I take a little more akg and calcium lactate. I try to save money by only taking pqq once, with the half life this may work I thought.
I have only used this version once in a week. I use 2.5 teaspoons of lactic acid and teaspoon of glycine for fission. I tried to research on my own. I don't have a science background. The lactic acid supposedly does the opposite of calcium lactate and the two csncel each other out, as far as I read. Unless the way they are processed in the body is different than how I thought I read it.

I had some ocd/hypochondriac anxiety around lactic acid. There is lethal dose for animals. Don't quote me I think it is something like 23mg for mice or humans. I did this reading few months ago. I don't really take. Notes. I am still recovering from a brain trauma. I felt fine taking about 5g of lactic acid. 2.5 teaspoons roughly 5g, if my math is right. I got it from a brewing company. It is 88% lactic acid. I take it with a full cup of water. It kinda jilted my system taking it first time. I'm sure it should be diluted with water. If you have an gastric issues it is not recccomened I would strongly warn against.

I also took 5g glycine with it and 2g akg and 80-120mg pqq.

I never had an account up until now. I've been a little scatterbrained too. Maybe others could share thier thoughts on what I have tried. I just based off what I thought I read. The only addition is I thought I read lactic acid was used as a fission agent. I have used this prot9cl about onc3 a month since October last year.

I did do the original mitchondria protocol with great results back in fall of 2022. I have kept up with it off and on and used the atomic protocol for exercise a few times a month.

Maybe I will .ake a post about what I have learned in my work in myself the last 4 years or so. Using this website. For a moderate concussion as well as some severe inherited mental health issues.

I just wanted to add my experience to the discussion.

[Logic]

I NB the effects of Sildenafil + Leucine  and Icariin + Leucine on the synthesis of mitochondria here:
https://www.ergo-log...ed-leucine.html

[Repack Racing]

Squad-

 

Turnbuckle has announced he is publishing a new 3x more effective protocol in about a month.

 

As a reminder, here is a link to the most recent article he published: https://www.linkedin...dischler-snu5f/

 

I hadn't done the latching protocol for a while because I was working on other stuff, but today I took:

 

5g Glycerol

 

2 hours later:

 

140mg PQQ

2g AAKG

7g Sports Legs

 

Anyone else have any updates?

 

 

[PAMPAGUY]

Turnbuckles latest latching formula for increasing ATP.

 

https://www.linkedin...ae9pE6/J7uF0g==

[Repack Racing]

Turnbuckles latest latching formula for increasing ATP.

 

https://www.linkedin...ae9pE6/J7uF0g==

 

See my questions in the comments - please add if there are further questions to clarify the protocol.

[stephen_b]

Here's a thought based on Turnbuckle's latest post.

 

5g Glycerol

 

2 hours later:

 

AAKG 2g

Fumaric acid (2g fumaric acid + 2g baking powder)

 

I'm not sure if the glycerol is beneficial or not. The results are reported to be stable for hours or days. I am not seeing an argument for long term benefits here though.

 

 

[zorba990]

ok are we not just manipulating the Krebs cycle by pumping various intermediates in?
And if so is there risk of pushing in one causing depletion of the others?

 

Vitamin E succinate is used as an anti cancer agent...so more like Mito QC with that

 

:text=ligand)%20in%20vivo-,Vitamin%20E%20succinate%20is%20a%20potent%20novel%20antineoplastic%20agent%20with,(3):863-9.' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>https://pubmed.ncbi....with,(3):863-9.

 

 

Vitamin E succinate is a potent novel antineoplastic agent with high selectivity and cooperativity with tumor necrosis factor-related apoptosis-inducing ligand (Apo2 ligand) in vivo

Tobias Weber 1, Min Lu, Ladislav Andera, Harald Lahm, Nina Gellert, Marc W Fariss, Vladimir Korinek, Wolfgang Sattler, David S Ucker, Alexei Terman, Andreas Schröder, Wolfgang Erl, Ulf T Brunk, Robert J Coffey, Christian Weber, Jiri Neuzil

Affiliations expand

• PMID: 11895920

Abstract

Alpha-tocopheryl succinate (alpha-TOS), a redox-inactive analogue of vitamin E, is a strong inducer of apoptosis, whereas alpha-tocopherol (alpha-TOH) lacks apoptogenic activity (J. Neuzil et al., FASEB J., 15: 403-415, 2001). Here we investigated the possible antineoplastic activities of alpha-TOH and alpha-TOS and further explored the potential of alpha-TOS as an antitumor agent. Using nude mice with colon cancer xenografts, we found that alpha-TOH exerted modest antitumor activity and acted by inhibiting tumor cell proliferation. In contrast, alpha-TOS showed a more profound antitumor effect, at both the level of inhibition of proliferation and induction of tumor cell apoptosis. alpha-TOS was nontoxic to normal cells and tissues, triggered apoptosis in p53(-/-) and p21(Waf1/Cip1(-/-)) cancer cells, and exerted a cooperative proapoptotic activity with tumor necrosis factor-related apoptosis-inducing ligand (Apo2 ligand) due to differences in proapoptotic signaling. Finally, alpha-TOS cooperated with tumor necrosis factor-related apoptosis-inducing ligand in suppression of tumor growth in vivo. Vitamin E succinate is thus a potent and highly specific anticancer agent and/or adjuvant of considerable therapeutic potential.

 

 

[bullGenteel]

I read the update, but I'm not the most logical person so I appreciate the updates and all the original developments to date. I think I am going to continue taking lactic acid and lactate. Subjectively I feel it helped me to bounce back after doing monthly fasts and stem cell treatments.

I use it for that purpose and I combined it once a month with the old fission/fusion treatments to, I don't know, is it demehtylate. I think I kinda understand that I could maybe use high dose pqq once than uplatch a couple of times before needing to clean house to cut costs.

The uplatching sounds like it is similar to the old maintenace phase turnbuckle mentioned for taking low dose NMR with stearic acid and neuro fusion agents, a few times a week, to be in a extended health state to reap longevity benefits. This used in between the monthly, or so mitosophis and fusion stages. I read other poster tweaked it by adding Alcar in these Phases, maybe uplatching can be used in stead.

I'm not concerned about being a high level athlete. Just trying to mismanage some rehabiltation program for myself. I am quite a little slow on the uptake, I just try to stick to what I can wrap my mind around and apply to with my limited self. In the near future, I'd like to see if I could get some fumaric acid to experiment with.

I havr also been considering a friend about what might be a good option for them with mnay of these protocils, since they have similar chronic conditions to myself but are at an age and have high risk factors for cancer. I read before that lactate isn't good for cancer. I'd never figure the scinetific mileau myself. The OT thread starter mentioned it degrades in pyruvate. A quick Google search says pyruvate is some how used in glycolic cycle, or the metabolism and recycling of glucose. My uneducated guess would be that's why it's bad for cancer since tumors love glucose. Screwing up any such pathways might hinder ATP or athletics too I'd guess.

It sounds like fumaric acid may be anti-tumorgenis. Im a slow researcher, considering Id have to guess what my or may not be right basic understsnding is to be. I also lack a lot of higher level mental talents. Too be charitable to myself, I guess I could call myself right brained at best.

I also appreciate the update considering concerns I have for a friend. Atleast for my friend sake, and usually my own, I OCD overthink and get analysis paralysis, ables me to limit how much I could potentially shoot myself in the foot, or someone else's foot of my account.

On that note, It kinda sounded like AKG may be bad. Some users leave that put because of glutmate I remeber reading. Gluthionine sounds like it is used by tumors to lower ROS to proliferate. Methionine and lysine give energy to all cells to grow. Those two are used in a couple other protocols, not this one. Curcumin is supposed to be, to the best to my knowledge useful for preventing tumor growth. Maybe low dose reversatrol and copper from another thread to hopefully clean up any free floating DNA waste. It's too complicated of me, Somethings can be anti or pro tumor depending on the stage, or depending how it may be adapted too by cancer. I may ask feedback at one point, considering the questionable merit of myself wanting to help not hurt a friend. I do worry chonic conditions untreated, in and of itself could raise risk level for cancer.

[Kelvin]

Turnbuckles latest latching formula for increasing ATP.

 

https://www.linkedin...ae9pE6/J7uF0g==

 

I find the idea that countless athletes may have lost competitions simply because they had orange juice in the morning to be darkly amusing.

 

But I am not sure how this new protocol is better than the old fission-fusion mito protocol with nicotinamide (or NMN) + PQQ + AKG for fission followed by DHM or sulforaphane or GMS for fusion, besides being potentially faster to eliminate mito damage.

 

Does the new protocol eliminate mitochondrial damage that the old protocol missed?

 

Unless there is some new benefit to be had from this updated protocol I am going to stick with my previous version, if for no other reason than sulforaphane has very potent anti-cancer properties, especially against cancer stem cells -

 

Fission day - 

 

1 gram Nicotinamide (replaced on an alternated 1:1 basis per fission day with 750 mgs NMN) 

 

500 mgs Fisetin (done occasionally as an anticancer agent and to kill defective stem cells, and to decrease telomere length.  Fisetin is not to be used constantly because excessive use can reduce telomere length of healthy cells with a good shelf-life remaining and thus cause them to die prematurely even though they could have continued in a healthy state for a longer period of time)

 

40 mgs PQQ (done once every 2 fission days)

 

500 mgs AKG (Double wood brand) 

 

Fusion day - 

 

50 mgs Sulforaphane (Thorne Research brand, taken as an anti-cancer agent and because sulforaphane is a fusion agent)

 

500 mgs DHM

 

1 spoonful of brown mustard (to activate the sulforaphane with the mustard's myrionase)

Edited by Kelvin, 12 April 2025 - 07:53 PM.

[stephen_b]

Hey Kelvin. I did your above routine, with fission before bed and fusion in the morning. I used Jarrow sulforaphane without the mustard. I did my push-ups 3 hours later and completed 70 of them, which is about what I've worked up to lately.

[Kelvin]

Hey Kelvin. I did your above routine, with fission before bed and fusion in the morning. I used Jarrow sulforaphane without the mustard. I did my push-ups 3 hours later and completed 70 of them, which is about what I've worked up to lately.

 

Did you use Nicotinamide or NMN?  

 

In my experience using NMN with the protocol improves musculature more than nicotinamide.  

[stephen_b]

I used 1000mg NMN from RevGenetics.

[stephen_b]

This morning I took fumarate 1.5g with 3/4 tsp baking soda around 8:45 AM. (Did I take AAKG with this? Now I'm not sure.) Immediately afterwards I did only 45 push-ups (below average). I have been doing a lot of those lately so maybe DOMs played a role. At track workout this evening 6:15 PM had a clearly above average workout (4x1600m) with a lower than usual heart rate throughout. I usually dread the longer intervals but today it was quite pleasant.

 

I'll try again tomorrow but making sure I take AAKG.

 

By the way, Turnbuckle did write that he had done several cycles of PQQ + AAKG weeks before the IMM up-latchers.

[SenBen]

Hi Kelvin!

 

i am traying do understand Turnbuckles protocol (I am new at this Forum).

I read your version of Turnbuckles protocol.

 

Could you, please, take a look and tell me if I understood correctly?

 

Fission- fusion protocol:

 

Fission day:

1.NMN - 750mg

2. Fisetin 500mg

3. PQQ 40mg

4. AAKG  500mg

 

Fusion day:

1. Sulforaphane - 50mg + brown mustard (for activation of Sulpforaphane - if I understood correctly?

2. DHM 500mg

 

Please, could you tell me when should I take Fission supplements and when should I take Fusion supplements?

Could that be taken on the some day? Or is there Fission day and than Fusion day?

And how often can I do Fusion/fission protocol?

 

My aim is to revers epigenetic age. And I saw that Turnbuckles reduced his biological age by 28 years which is impressive.

 

Also, I read Turnbuckles latest latching formula for incensing ATP (https://www.linkedin...ae9pE6/J7uF0g)

 

Honestly, I don t understand what is IMM latching.

Also, I see that he is mentioning bigger dose of PQQ (100mg) and AAKG (2-3mg).

Is it more effective to take bigger doses?

Thank you very much!

 

 

 

 

Edited by SenBen, 23 April 2025 - 10:11 AM.

[Kelvin]

I usually take the fission supplements on day 1 then the fusion supplements on day 2, but to speed things up I have done fission in the morning then fusion in the evening.

 

1 day of fission and 1 day of fusion = 1 mito protocol cycle.

 

Remember to use Nicotinamide on fission days for every day you use NMN because nicotinamide causes fission in brain mitochondria but NMN causes fusion in brain mitochondria.

 

Also, don't use fisetin on every fission day because it reduces telomere length and, if overused, will thus cause healthy cells with otherwise a decent shelf-life left to prematurely enter apoptosis.

 

I tend to use fisetin for 25% of all mito cycles I do in a year:  I usually do 20 to 30 cycles a year so I would use fisetin for 4-6 fission days a year.

 

I have not done the latest Turnbuckle protocol with latching and don't intend to because I don't see how it would be more beneficial than the fission-fusion version of the protocol.

 

 

[SenBen]

Thank you very much Kelvin.

 

You really helped me.

 

Now I understand what is MITO protocol cycle.

 

For last 2 days I tried to read all Tunbruckler posts and there are so much information.

I think there isn t any better protocol for mitochondria charge and for epigenetic age reversal (steam cell protocol). With steam cell protocol he achieved epigenetic age reversal which can be only achieved with Yamanaca factors in labs (which is not available to ordinary people and question is if it will be ever available to us. David Sinclair spoke about small molecules which they used in labs traying to find oral pill which would revers epigenetic age, but than again question is if and when it will be available to us). The only think so far which could revers some epigenetic age is, probably, weekly small dose of rapamycin. But this Tunbruckler steam cell protocol is much more effective.

 

I think we are blest that such a great scientist wanted to share his great research results and helped a lot of people.

I am sorry that he is not active any more on this site.

 

As I read a lot of of his posts I would like to ask you one more question.

 

As I understood during the fission  all mitochondria go to the minimum size containing one loop by increasing the NAD+/NADH ratio. 

I found out that in some earlier Tunbruckler protocols he used NR for fission  - I guess to increase NAD.

Than I found that he wrote following:

Turnbuckle, why aren't you using NMN in your protocols?

I always look for the least expensive and most available ingredients. I know that N+R works, and 4g of N+R costs under fifty cents while while 4g of NMN costs about $25 -- 50 times more. So it's an easy decision.

 

I know that NMN increase NAD, as NR. So I don t understand why NMN can not be used in fission?

I am confused and don t want to make mistake.

 

Also, I found this version of Tunbruckler protocol:

 

"This new procedure is much simplified. It requires only two doses, Mito1 and Mito2, which are alternated on a daily basis.

 

Mito1 (fission)

● NAM+R, 1 g of each

● AKG, 1 g

● PQQ, 20 mg

 

Mito2 (fusion)

● GMS, 1 g

● AKG, 1 g

● PQQ, 20 mg

 

And he uses PQQ and AKG also for fission and fusion in this protocol he does not  use NR anymore, but he uses NAM+R.

 

 

And considering using AAKG (not AKG) I found that Turnbuckle wrote following:

 

"As for AKG, I used the simplesa liquid for the greatest bioavailability. You could use powder too, of course, though I suggest dissolving it first. For the experiment I left the PQQ in caps and took everything else in water. Taking a few grams of AAKG an hour before would also be an option. I was looking for a unitary dose, but what's the worst that could happen if you don't get that part right? It just won't work as well, I expect. And if you are monitoring your progress numerically, you will see it."

 

So I guess if I take AAKG one hour before all other supplements it will do the job?

 

I am honestly confused and if somebody can help me to find best  Tunbruckler protocol for Mito charging I would  really appreciate it.

 

Thank you very much!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SenBen, 25 April 2025 - 09:03 AM.

[SenBen]

I would appreciate if somebody could help  me and tell me if the following protocol for fission/fusion would be correct:

 

morning  - Fission:

1, NMN (sublingual, 750mg) + NAM (1g) 

2. AAKG + AKG powder (1g)

3. PQQ 20mg

 

evening- Fusion:

1. DHM (1g)

2. Sulforaphane (50mg)

3. AAKG + AKG powder (1g)

4. PQQ 20mg

 

Also, if somebody could tell me: Can I take TMG in between fission and fusion because NMN depletes methyl donors and TMG is a  methyl  donor.

 

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

I would appreciate if somebody could help  me and tell me if the following protocol for fission/fusion would be correct:

 

morning  - Fission:

1, NMN (sublingual, 750mg) + NAM (1g) 

2. AAKG + AKG powder (1g)

3. PQQ 20mg

 

evening- Fusion:

1. DHM (1g)

2. Sulforaphane (50mg)

3. AAKG + AKG powder (1g)

4. PQQ 20mg

 

Also, if somebody could tell me: Can I take TMG in between fission and fusion because NMN depletes methyl donors and TMG is a  methyl  donor.

 

 

Thank you!

 

Remember to alternate between NMN and Nicotinamide for fission on SEPARATE days because although NMN causes fission in most of the body it causes fusion in the brain, while nicotinamide/NAM causes fission in the brain.  If you take nicotinamide at the same time as NMN they cancel each other out for no brain benefit.

 

So do this

 

Fission (day 1) - 1 gram Nicotinamide 

Fusion (day 2) - (AAKG is not necessary on fusion day if taking 1 gram of AKG - I use Double wood brand AKG)

Fission (day 3) - 1 gram NMN

Fusion (day 4) - normal fusion stack

Fission (day 5) - 1 gram Nicotinamide 

etc, etc

 

Yes you can take TMG.

I usually take 2 grams TMG every 3- 4 mito cycles to restore methyl stores that are depleted by NMN and NAM.

Edited by Kelvin, 28 April 2025 - 08:41 PM.