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Are we all just a bunch of Narcissistic Hypochondriacs?

hypochondria narcissism longevity

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#1 TheFountain

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:13 AM


I was wondering, with all of our self heightened sensations related to being dedicated members of this forum for YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, is it at all possible that the consciousness of health and longevity has caused several of us to become little more than Narcissistic, Self aggrandizing Hypochondriacs?

 

Think about it, before you became interested in health and longevity did you have as many "symptoms" as you currently do? And if so, were you as conscious of them as you currently are? Do you think it is a danger to your existential creation to be so unreasonably conscious ALL THE TIME of every tick and click your body makes?

 

And beyond that, do you think that it's a reasonable query to ask whether or not we have gone beyond physical health to the degree where it can harm our mental health? 

 

I'm saying this because, when I became a member of this forum in 2008 I was already skating the edge of Hypochondria, but there have been times where this forum has both enhanced my life dramatically AND enhanced my hypochondria almost as dramatically.

 

Where's the fine line? Where do we draw it? At what point do we stop worrying and tickling ourselves the wrong way (when we overthink about our physicality) and start taking a bit more enjoyment out of life unconsciously?

 

I am serious, this is not a troll post. I seriously think, sometimes forgetting some of this is ALSO part of longevity! 

 

Thoughts?

 

Prayers?

 

Salutations? 

 

Come on Bro. Hit me up. I wanna know. 

 

 


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#2 pamojja

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 11:01 AM

 

.. but there have been times where this forum has both enhanced my life dramatically AND enhanced my hypochondria almost as dramatically.

 

Maybe as always it's never that accurate to generalize. For example, before I've been blissfully ignorant of anything health-related, In short, ate and did what I want and considered meaningful. Health-wise I did have already a share of dangerous diseases, but it seemed my immune-system knew by itself how to get rid of about anything, with me just being pacient.

 

Then after age 40 a debilitating disease stroke where my immune-system could help naught, and conventional medicine too risky. Therefore I joined mainly because of many members here at that time very knowledgeable about bio-chemistry. In that time learned a lot, which I would like to have known before to avoid the debilitation.

 

In my case there has been and still is obsession, but also reversing a 60% walking disability. Now I'm more obsessed with being at ease with whatever might come along.

 

So at least in me I can observe a positive progression. Also with others who did take a break from the ceaseless discussions.

 

 

Do you think it is a danger to your existential creation to be so unreasonably conscious ALL THE TIME of every tick and click your body makes?

 

Depends on the attitude one engages with. I did that already before becoming health-conscious in extensive Buddhist mindfulness training. Which indeed can be existentially dangerous to the ongoing self-image-creation, but in a very rewarding way.

 

Or as the popular christian prayer goes:

 

God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.

Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace..


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#3 Oakman

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 04:30 PM

Without getting into too complicated a discussion.

 

- "Narcissistic, self aggrandizing Hypochondriacs"? I'm not sure what that would look like, but you'd have to point some examples out. I don't think it's that common, whatever it is.

 

- Yes, I've always been concerned with every "tick and click" of my body, including their symptoms. The difference now, is, that with time on my hands to do the research, and LongeCity forum's help, I'm finally able to understand enough of my various "ticks and clicks" to make some practical life-plans and lifestyle changes. Win-Win!

 

- My mental health is acceptable, and when it's not, I self medicate in various ways (and my methods have improved being here) to my satisfaction. Another Win-Win.

 

- If anything, my enjoyment of life has improved the more I know about my body, my mental states, and what is possible to do about it. Sure I off and on spend inordinate amounts of time on the forum (mostly at night, or on cold indoor type days), but why would that ever stop me from enjoyment of life? If anything, it has given more confidence to continue pushing the envelope both physically and mentally. 


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#4 TheFountain

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 09:22 PM

Without getting into too complicated a discussion.

 

-The difference now, is, that with time on my hands to do the research, and LongeCity forum's help, I'm finally able to understand enough of my various "ticks and clicks" to make some practical life-plans and lifestyle changes. Win-Win!

 

 

 

With all the contradictory information and research on the forum, nobody to regulate it and compartmentalize what group of tests are more, or less, genuine and having to rely on contradictory double positives/double negatives all the time? How? How is that helpful? 

 

Let's take diet for example.

 

Every indication i've been getting from this forum in the past 2-3 years is that Fat is good/bad, carbs are good/bad, both are wonderful/horrible, both will bring health/ill health.

 

What the actual phuck is that?

 
 
And where is ANYBODY trying to add context into the equation?
 
First we had Duke promising us that Carbs will destroy us, now we have Mr. E or what ever his name is promising us FAT will destroy us.
 
Nobody is providing counter arguments to most of it anymore. 

Edited by TheFountain, 29 March 2018 - 09:26 PM.

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#5 Oakman

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 10:28 PM

 

Without getting into too complicated a discussion.

 

-The difference now, is, that with time on my hands to do the research, and LongeCity forum's help, I'm finally able to understand enough of my various "ticks and clicks" to make some practical life-plans and lifestyle changes. Win-Win!

 

 

 

With all the contradictory information and research on the forum, nobody to regulate it and compartmentalize what group of tests are more, or less, genuine and having to rely on contradictory double positives/double negatives all the time? How? How is that helpful? 

 

Let's take diet for example.

 

Every indication i've been getting from this forum in the past 2-3 years is that Fat is good/bad, carbs are good/bad, both are wonderful/horrible, both will bring health/ill health.

 

What the actual phuck is that?

 
 
And where is ANYBODY trying to add context into the equation?
 
First we had Duke promising us that Carbs will destroy us, now we have Mr. E or what ever his name is promising us FAT will destroy us.
 
Nobody is providing counter arguments to most of it anymore. 

 

 

Clearly, in the absolute sense, you're right, everything is confusing as..well..as you'd expect from exploring things related to humans. You've been around here more than a while, more than myself. I'm sure you can relate if you've progressed anything like I have in the search for knowledge. When I came here and starting reading posts and jargon, and references to scientific literature, my head was spinning like a top. Regularly I had to back off, start making diagrams, writing what I knew down, and cross checking studies linked from all over to try to make a coherent story about anything I read. Of course much of the vocabulary was foreign, so there was terminology and concepts to grasp in biology, chemistry, medicine. That was and is fun, and enjoyably hard and I still really know very little.

 

Point being, that has brought many insights. Me being the center of my universe, I happily get to make the final judgement from what I know. The contradictory views and competing studies about something allow a better judgement. Then there's experience. It's different from my beliefs. N=1 studies, which I partake in, can only give an unscientific, completely gut feel result. Valuable indeed, as it is my reality.

 

Take the carb/fat "controversy" you mention. Just my opinion, but that was easy, and total and complete marketing bull. Cats need mostly protein diet, dogs do not, and neither do people. We need a balance, in moderation, consisting of what we are designed for, end of story.  So protein, carbohydrates, and fats - all the best in the right form. However drumming up a controversy is good for sales. One against the other. 

 

But there are lots of controversies about a lot of subjects. The forum is full of them, a lot based on conflicting study results, forget marketing ones. I'm not interested in all of them, I don't always understand 100%, but the ones I do, I learn enough to make a judgement, however faulty. And then there is order in my universe. It's my context until I change it.



#6 xEva

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:06 AM

but guys! all this depends on..  ..with what aim to come to the forum.

i, for one, am mesmerised by the mystery of it all. What is life? what makes it tick? what makes it age?   That's the enigma!

I'm driven by insatiable curiosity. I want to understand. The harder the problem the sweeter is reward.


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#7 TheFountain

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:19 AM

but guys! all this depends on..  ..with what aim to come to the forum.

i, for one, am mesmerised by the mystery of it all. What is life? what makes it tick? what makes it age?   That's the enigma!

I'm driven by insatiable curiosity. I want to understand. The harder the problem the sweeter is reward.

 

I don't mind philosophizing on the general meaning of life, but when it comes to physical health and wellness I don't want to fuck around with this is good/bad, that is good/bad, both are amazing/stupid, both are reasonable/retarded. 

 

We should have contextually solid answers about at least SOME things. 

 

It seems like the content of the forum has degraded significantly in the past 2-3 years from actually having some centered meaning to having an off centered "YES BUT NO" about everything!



#8 pamojja

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 09:25 AM

First we had Duke promising us that Carbs will destroy us, now we have Mr. E or what ever his name is promising us FAT will destroy us.

 
Nobody is providing counter arguments to most of it anymore.

 

It seems like the content of the forum has degraded significantly in the past 2-3 years from actually having some centered meaning to having an off centered "YES BUT NO" about everything!

 

TheFountain, you can't have it both ways. First complaining about nobody countering arguments anymore, then everyone having everything negated recently..

 

In the case of low-fat/high fat the problem is as easily solved by considering different preconditions and bio-chemical individuality: Know one person who eat all junk, smoked and drunk all life up to old age? An other having received many health benefits by changing to a low-fat plant based diet? And the odd one like me, having been low-fat vegan since age 10. At age 40 succumbing to chronic disease with disability, reversing it by going low-carb/high fat?

 

And you have a following of each strand out of mere believes.

 

The first kind rarely show's up here, because would find too much needless opposition in the long run. So yes, we are a pretty self-selected bunch of bio-hackers. The second kind says what he wants to say. The third kind also said what had to be said. But in my case doesn't wants to be engaged in endless mere arguments about blind believe..

 

You want an easy answer? - Everyone is different and needs a different experimental approach to do justice to one's individuality.

 

You want an easy to navigate black and white world? - Sorry, not available at this plane of existence.


Edited by pamojja, 30 March 2018 - 09:35 AM.

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#9 pamojja

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

- "Narcissistic, self aggrandizing Hypochondriacs"? I'm not sure what that would look like, but you'd have to point some examples out. I don't think it's that common, whatever it is.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Hypochondriasis

 

Hypochondriasis or hypochondria is a condition in which a person is inordinately worried about having a serious illness. An old concept, its meaning has repeatedly changed due to redefinitions in its source metaphors.[1] It has been claimed that this debilitating condition results from an inaccurate perception of the condition of body or mind despite the absence of an actual medical diagnosis.[2] An individual with hypochondriasis is known as a hypochondriac. Hypochondriacs become unduly alarmed about any physical or psychological symptoms they detect, no matter how minor the symptom may be, and are convinced that they have, or are about to be diagnosed with, a serious illness.[3]

 

With my list of serious chronic diseases, where even the diagnosing MDs can see only worse to come. Having them proven wrong - I'm definitely not. My obsession is rather in finding root-causes with extensive lab-testing, and through which I've been successful at. Something MDs in almost all cases are not interested, or even aware of. But to prescribe poly-pharmacy for the rest for one's life to get more customers to this business-model. Again most of them blissfully unaware of.

 

 

We should have contextually solid answers about at least SOME things.

 

Trends in lab-testing gave solid answers, for example in relation to dietary choices in my case. Which beautifully turned out in real-health improvements. Solid in the most important thing.

 

 

of this forum for YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, is it at all possible that the consciousness of health and longevity has caused several of us to become little more than Narcissistic, Self aggrandizing Hypochondriacs?

 

I do however observe more and more individuals with health problems for already years, joining this forum in disproportional numbers, and complaining endlessly about health issues without resolution. Though not self aggrandizing at all - but a few definitely suffering some sort of hypochondria.

 

As always, association doesn't have to mean causation. With health-issues this forum becomes very attractive, doen't mean the forum would cause health issues.

 

 

 

Therefore I, maybe wrongly, assume you may actually have 2 issues, one arising out of the other:

 

1.) There seems no diet/protocol which benefits all - which seems too difficult or unreal for you to comprehend?

 

2.) Upon such confusion you start to worry to a point, where you assume years of engaging with these questions with no simple answers made you appear to yourself as hypochondriac? Or you simply started to identify with the few hypochondriacs here, who make them-self disproportionally heard?

 

 

Please point out where I'm wrong!


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#10 xEva

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 03:34 PM

I don't mind philosophizing on the general meaning of life, but when it comes to physical health and wellness I don't want to fuck around with this is good/bad, that is good/bad, both are amazing/stupid, both are reasonable/retarded. 
 
We should have contextually solid answers about at least SOME things. 
 
It seems like the content of the forum has degraded significantly in the past 2-3 years from actually having some centered meaning to having an off centered "YES BUT NO" about everything!


Sounds like you main complaint is that there are no "solid answers", and you blame the forum for this. I agree that the level of discussion has degraded in the past 2-3 years; and this may be due to the general sense of disappointment that dampened  the initial enthusiasm, as the realization of the complexity of this biology/physiology thing set in. ..and it was not made any better by the seeming unwillingness of the 'founding fathers'  :-D to adjust their original ideas in the face of the new data coming in. Stagnation is the logical outcome of this.

 

Re solid answers, how reasonable is this demand? Even if there were solid answers, they never apply to 100% of the population. Which means that everyone must still find what works for them, and this is accomplished by experimentation -- and nothing else. 

 

and I think the question of your topic is a bit late, in the sense that Narcissistic Hypochondriacs was the dominant group of the forum way back when it was still called ImmInst. The mean age of the group hovered around 20, barely +, and testosterone was running high. The boys are largely gone now. I imagine this is because they have overcome their anxiety and fear of life, which happens often in the beginning of adulthood, and now are living their lives fully. Those who are still stuck could seek help of a mental health professional. Otherwise, in another 10 years, they may find that the prime of their life is gone, 'immortality for the masses' still remains as illusive as ever -- and they have wasted their time on worrying whether this or that click the body makes constitutes an early symptom of a dreaded disease. Does it answer your question? :)


Edited by xEva, 30 March 2018 - 03:40 PM.

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#11 sthira

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 06:11 PM

I might have less cynical moods that lead to switching up the language from "narcissistic hypochondriacs" to a gentler "orthorexics." I'm orthorexic, that is, neither narcissus nor hypochondriac. I think people want aging reversal techniques we can add to our daily lives, and we don't have any, so it's just a stew of stagnation here now.

When looking back through time (and I've been watching this space and contributing since 2008, too) what I saw "back then" was more freshness and hope. More contributors who appeared to know what they were talking about. Well, time passed. We're still aging. Maybe the newness of exploring these topics with a large audience loaded some of us up with ideas that our fictions might become real in the short term. That hasn't happened, so people drift away.

One age reversal therapy proven -- obviously proven to all who see it -- is enough to swing the field back into high energy again. I feel like we're in a desert -- oh look, another oasis.

Since you mentioned diet, the results of the CR macaque studies (Wisconsin and NIH) popped many hope bubbles. I mean, even if you refused to believe in CR's longevity extension for humans, or thought the whole idea was stupid and impractical, we at least had the optimism that something actionable was possible. Hope for rad life-extension via disciplined CR showed us that -- maybe -- hope could lift for other methods, too, like mimetics: resveratrol, C60 olive oil, metformin, rapamycin, now it's NR, tomorrow who knows.

#12 Oakman

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 06:44 PM

I might have less cynical moods that lead to switching up the language from "narcissistic hypochondriacs" to a gentler "orthorexics." I'm orthorexic, that is, neither narcissus nor hypochondriac. I think people want aging reversal techniques we can add to our daily lives, and we don't have any, so it's just a stew of stagnation here now.

When looking back through time (and I've been watching this space and contributing since 2008, too) what I saw "back then" was more freshness and hope. More contributors who appeared to know what they were talking about. Well, time passed. We're still aging. Maybe the newness of exploring these topics with a large audience loaded some of us up with ideas that our fictions might become real in the short term. That hasn't happened, so people drift away.

One age reversal therapy proven -- obviously proven to all who see it -- is enough to swing the field back into high energy again. I feel like we're in a desert -- oh look, another oasis.

Since you mentioned diet, the results of the CR macaque studies (Wisconsin and NIH) popped many hope bubbles. I mean, even if you refused to believe in CR's longevity extension for humans, or thought the whole idea was stupid and impractical, we at least had the optimism that something actionable was possible. Hope for rad life-extension via disciplined CR showed us that -- maybe -- hope could lift for other methods, too, like mimetics: resveratrol, C60 olive oil, metformin, rapamycin, now it's NR, tomorrow who knows.

 

Now you're talking!! I think you've encapsulated well the problem with longevity regimens in general since forever. I wouldn't blame longecity or its posters, but rather the failure of science to identify lifespan extension that actually works! Real world results inevitably fall far short of possibilities exposed in studies.

 

"I think people want aging reversal techniques we can add to our daily lives, and we don't have any, so it's just a stew of stagnation here now."  < To be fair, it's a stew of possibilities.

 

"I feel like we're in a desert -- oh look, another oasis." < This is perfect visualization, thanks ...and it made me LOL :)



#13 sthira

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 07:13 PM

Thank you, Oakman, not only because I love the city of Oakland, and I love oak trees themselves, but because you gave me the "pothole" idea of nutrition. That is, eat as well as possible, chart it on cronometer, identify them road-age bouncing jars, potholes, and fill them with supplements. I do this! Does it matter? Wfk...

"I think people want aging reversal techniques we can add to our daily lives, and we don't have any, so it's just a stew of stagnation here now." < To be fair, it's a stew of possibilities...


Possibilities seem promising; but they also seem nebulous, possibly dangerous, and far away. So if we want to access today's possibilities, we have to take these oddball risks -- mailorder substances that may or may not be what they purport. Rapamycin? WTF... And even if ordered up rapamycin from India is real -- we don't even know how much, how often, for whom, at what stage in your life.... People are just taking their best guesses, writing blogs, noting how it makes them feel, informing us, and possibly getting blood work done... Then again, if you're suffering age related diseases right now, should you risk "trying something" outside the establishment because, after all, doing nothing is a well-traveled path?

I look at Liz Parish. She doesn't "look younger" to me or "seem" any younger than many other starlets. But I don't think she's a narcissistic hypochondriac for attempting. She's a business woman seeking solutions to an unmet need, and she wants to create ways to slow aging. All of us want that.

#14 TheFountain

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 08:50 PM

 

 

TheFountain, you can't have it both ways. 

Well, according to the recent 'studies' presented here, you CAN and MUST have it both ways or you're not "in the know" as it were.  This seems to be the latest trend with regard to dietary science. Nothing is everything and everything is nothing. 

 

In other words, none of us know shit, it's great that we don't know shit, and not knowing shit will lead us to a long and happy existence.

 

You Said:

"In the case of low-fat/high fat the problem is as easily solved by considering different preconditions and bio-chemical individuality: Know one person who eat all junk, smoked and drunk all life up to old age? An other having received many health benefits by changing to a low-fat plant based diet? And the odd one like me, having been low-fat vegan since age 10. At age 40 succumbing to chronic disease with disability, reversing it by going low-carb/high fat?"

 

But I have seen just as many, if not more examples of Paleo high fat dieters who've had equal or greater health gains as any vegan i've met in this life. 

 

Anecdote, Shmanecdote? 

 

The only thing I can surmise out of any of that is that Broccoli is good. 

 

What else is there, really?

 

Oh yea,

 

Trans fat is bad. Carbs are both, every other kind of fat is both. Saturated fat is my best friend, but my worst enemy. 

 

So everything I am doing is helping and hurting my health? 

 

Maybe I should eat nothing but Broccoli every day. 



#15 pamojja

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 08:57 PM

Maybe I should eat nothing but Broccoli every day.

 

Monitoring lab-result trends doesn't lead one ashtray. Reading contradicting studies and not monitoring one's own results may do.

 


Edited by pamojja, 30 March 2018 - 08:58 PM.


#16 sthira

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 09:21 PM

The only thing I can surmise out of any of that is that Broccoli is good.

What else is there, really?


Packets of strawberry jam found on airplanes: https://youtu.be/fxvGHQHiY70

#17 TheFountain

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 03:20 AM

Guys on here are getting to the point where they trust no supplements, no diets, no this, no that.

 

What do you guys trust in? That's my main question right now. 

 

What's your constants that seem to keep you where you feel 'safe'?



#18 xEva

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 05:07 AM

Guys on here are getting to the point where they trust no supplements, no diets, no this, no that.

 

What do you guys trust in? That's my main question right now. 

 

What's your constants that seem to keep you where you feel 'safe'?

 

 

i guess you don't notice that you're projecting -?   Hardly anyone here, certainly not participants in this thread, experience the level of anxiety you describe. 

 

this  could be a beginning of a nasty episode. Do you have a doc?  


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#19 hydrus

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 02:22 PM

I once thought that hypochondria and anxiety was bad but I came to realise that it might be beneficial. Animals in the wild are often extremely shy and careful unless they need to fight for their life. It is a natural survival mechanism so unless it gets out of control I would not necessarliy view as maladaptive or unnatural.

 

better safe than sorry?

 

 

 

 

 



#20 OP2040

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:27 PM

Regarding hypochondria, unfortunately I think you're correct.  The problem is that I don't see a way back from it, or a way to avoid it.  Once we educate ourselves on biology, aging, etc. it's impossible to go back to ignorance.  Yes, some of it is hypochondria, but it is also simply having more knowledge.  We are aware of, and therefore notice things, that others may not.  I sometimes think I would prefer to know nothing about any of this because it can be very painful.  And I also sometimes take the Schopenhauer view that it would be best not to be born at all.  But humans have a mission to reduce suffering and fix this damaged world.  And progress is being made. That is what keeps me going from day to day.  This is also a wider social issue beyond this forum.  Ordinary people are are being forced to be aware of all kinds of problems of which our grandparents hadn't a clue.  No one is untouched by this age of anxiety.  

 

As for narcissism, I can only speak for myself.  I am not a narcissist at all, and I think the narcissism thing will fix itself if we get what we want.  One thing that will change by necessity is our identities.  It will start with our health, for example eliminating inherited diseases, but it surely won't stop there.  At some point, if we can change our core identities easily, the notion of a narcissistic self will disappear in a sea of possibility.  Frankly, I'm looking forward to not being remotely like myself anymore.  Isn't that the opposite of narcissism?



#21 TheFountain

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:57 AM

The primary issue is whether or not our awareness of biology and other faculties activates our sympathetic nervous systems too much by triggering danger thoughts related to invisible enemies that cannot be confirmed.

 

Knowledge is great, to the degree that it is useful to our continued well-being. Excess knowledge that triggers biological, psycho-somatic symptomology is a useless and extraneous demand on the neurological and eventually the biological system, specifically putting us in a state of hyper vigilance thus activating the nervous system unnecessarily with repeated fight/flight responses related to zero  legitimate dangers. 

 

In other words, we put ourselves in danger of riling ourselves up and causing emotional and biological symptoms that are otherwise rare in so called 'normal' minds. 

 

 


Edited by TheFountain, 04 April 2018 - 02:59 AM.


#22 pamojja

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:50 PM

i guess you don't notice that you're projecting -?   Hardly anyone here, certainly not participants in this thread, experience the level of anxiety you describe.

 

Of course, it's the nature of one individual suffering hypochondria not responding to arguments. But to continue to weave a storyline which fits the diagnosis.


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#23 Oakman

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

^ I realize people are different in the amount of stress they can withstand without 'losing it', so to speak. But the idea that you can have "excess knowledge", to me, is just plain wrong on so many levels. Yet I know people live their lives with this as a guiding light. Like a variation of the three little monkeys, see not, hear not, speak not, lest you know something. Heck, many religions are based on the idea of replacing knowledge with fantasy and contrived folklore to bring 'peace of mind' to people... for subjects they don't wish to investigate or cannot (or will not) understand for themselves.

 

To me, knowledge brings comfort, and obviously understanding which is both a positive and a negative to stress, but never is there "excess knowledge". 


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#24 TheFountain

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 04:46 PM

^ I realize people are different in the amount of stress they can withstand without 'losing it', so to speak. But the idea that you can have "excess knowledge", to me, is just plain wrong on so many levels. 

 

It's simple. You misunderstood what I meant. 

 

What I was referring to was being in possession of knowledge that is not being put to use but exists as an extraneous expenditure mentally and physically. 

 

Some forms of excess knowledge can cause us to use energy we otherwise shouldn't be using on a day to day basis. Like the energy of premeditating over the bodies 'normal' subtleties. The danger is in letting these subtleties become more than just what they are. 

 

An extreme example of this is orthorexia nervosa. The state of malnourishment associated by some with "staying away from unhealthy choices".

 

Now, that's not what i'm saying at all. What i'm saying is that we should ask ourselves what forms of excess knowledge are and aren't useful to us in a day to day situation, excluding the 'fun' of philosophical meanderings that do not apply directly to our physical well beings. 

 

To me personally, prepondering the subtleties of the body day to day is not a fun use of excess biological knowledge. 


Edited by TheFountain, 04 April 2018 - 04:48 PM.


#25 pamojja

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 05:06 PM

To me personally, prepondering the subtleties of the body day to day is not a fun use of excess biological knowledge. 

 
Maybe because in your case you didn't reverse a 60% walking-disability, as I did?
 
I can say in my case it's pure gladdening, so much that I continue to post for giving back a bit of what I received. Pure fun.



#26 Oakman

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:28 PM

 

^ I realize people are different in the amount of stress they can withstand without 'losing it', so to speak. But the idea that you can have "excess knowledge", to me, is just plain wrong on so many levels. 

 

It's simple. You misunderstood what I meant. 

 

What I was referring to was being in possession of knowledge that is not being put to use but exists as an extraneous expenditure mentally and physically. 

 

Some forms of excess knowledge can cause us to use energy we otherwise shouldn't be using on a day to day basis. Like the energy of premeditating over the bodies 'normal' subtleties. The danger is in letting these subtleties become more than just what they are. 

 

An extreme example of this is orthorexia nervosa. The state of malnourishment associated by some with "staying away from unhealthy choices".

 

Now, that's not what i'm saying at all. What i'm saying is that we should ask ourselves what forms of excess knowledge are and aren't useful to us in a day to day situation, excluding the 'fun' of philosophical meanderings that do not apply directly to our physical well beings. 

 

To me personally, prepondering the subtleties of the body day to day is not a fun use of excess biological knowledge. 

 

I believe I understood you, it's your way. Orthorexia nervosa and/or other issues aside, knowledge, whether philosophical or practical simply never tires me out, or drains my energy, quite the opposite... it gives me energy, it is the qi. 

 

We all learn for different reasons. I have a vested interest is in the "subtleties of the body day to day" in a perhaps vain attempt to keep my relatively old one running well, longer. Maybe you're young or in perfect health, but if you've ever owned an old car or old house, the aging process is remarkably similar. You need to learn the down and dirty of maintenance and repair, and to be prepared for nasty surprises. That's where all that extraneous knowledge learned today may save you tomorrow. But it's not required, by any means :)



#27 TheFountain

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 02:35 AM

 

 

^ I realize people are different in the amount of stress they can withstand without 'losing it', so to speak. But the idea that you can have "excess knowledge", to me, is just plain wrong on so many levels. 

 

It's simple. You misunderstood what I meant. 

 

What I was referring to was being in possession of knowledge that is not being put to use but exists as an extraneous expenditure mentally and physically. 

 

Some forms of excess knowledge can cause us to use energy we otherwise shouldn't be using on a day to day basis. Like the energy of premeditating over the bodies 'normal' subtleties. The danger is in letting these subtleties become more than just what they are. 

 

An extreme example of this is orthorexia nervosa. The state of malnourishment associated by some with "staying away from unhealthy choices".

 

Now, that's not what i'm saying at all. What i'm saying is that we should ask ourselves what forms of excess knowledge are and aren't useful to us in a day to day situation, excluding the 'fun' of philosophical meanderings that do not apply directly to our physical well beings. 

 

To me personally, prepondering the subtleties of the body day to day is not a fun use of excess biological knowledge. 

 

I believe I understood you, it's your way. Orthorexia nervosa and/or other issues aside, knowledge, whether philosophical or practical simply never tires me out, or drains my energy, quite the opposite... it gives me energy, it is the qi. 

 

We all learn for different reasons. I have a vested interest is in the "subtleties of the body day to day" in a perhaps vain attempt to keep my relatively old one running well, longer. Maybe you're young or in perfect health, but if you've ever owned an old car or old house, the aging process is remarkably similar. You need to learn the down and dirty of maintenance and repair, and to be prepared for nasty surprises. That's where all that extraneous knowledge learned today may save you tomorrow. But it's not required, by any means :)

 

 

 

My brethren. 

 

I am talking about the unhinged misdirection of a very specific type of knowledge. 

 

That is, knowledge of the biological processes of the body. 

 

The misdirected part is when your subconscious mind summons ridiculous notions about what may or may not be happening beneath the surface layer of your body. To the degree that it becomes unnecessarily hyper vigilant about every click and tick it makes. Clicks and ticks which, in homeostasis, are relatively normal. 

 

Clicks and ticks which, interpreted through this misdirected excess knowledge, summon the above mentioned ridiculous and hypochondriacal notions. 


Edited by TheFountain, 05 April 2018 - 02:36 AM.


#28 Oakman

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 03:25 AM

^ Problem solved. You're a hypochondriac! You're also aren't talking knowledge, you're talking about your brain screwing with your knowledge.

 

I'd suggest some self medication(s) and/or therapy to help alleviate the over thinking or "unhinged misdirection", as you call it..


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#29 OP2040

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 09:04 PM

^ Problem solved. You're a hypochondriac! You're also aren't talking knowledge, you're talking about your brain screwing with your knowledge.

 

I'd suggest some self medication(s) and/or therapy to help alleviate the over thinking or "unhinged misdirection", as you call it..

 

I'm very envious of your positive attitude.  On one level I completely agree, and that is largely the choice I've made in my life.  On the other hand, I sometimes do feel like ignorance and delusion would be bliss.  For example, I've had my whole genome sequenced, and I certainly don't regret it.  But living with that knowledge is sometimes difficult, and it's easy to think I would be much happier not knowing some of it.  It's not even that bad really, I'm just a pansy I guess lol.

 

I think the problem isn't so much knowledge, which is always a good thing in principle.  It's that certain types of knowledge can't be acted upon in a reasonable, timely manner.  A more philosophical way of saying it would be to ask if you would want to know, ceteris paribus, when you will die.  You may want to know this as a young man filled with hope for the future and the possibilities of radical change.  But that same knowledge may become an unbearable burden the week before your appointment with the grim reaper.



#30 YOLF

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 12:28 AM

I think this question is more important:

Should we have always quantified our health experience as we do today? I think the answer is yes. We could have been healthier than we are today but we just didn't know how to be or didn't take our health seriously enough due to other factors.

 

If a child eats a bunch of raspberries, they will get a good dose of vitamins and antioxidants and will have more energy. Ever take vitamin C before bed? Didn't we eat chocolate b/c it made us feel better? Didn't we graduate to caffeinated beverages for the same reason? To experience better health? Or was it what we did inherently that we just didn't understand well enough and then we got wiser? Can we communicate the mechanics of food and supplement health experience to a child? Flintstone vitamins have a color that I have difficult to diagnose chemical intolerances of and so I always looked to alternatives. Most daily vits are still made to be toxic to me.

 

I think that alot of things like this shape who we become and form our attitudes. Perhaps some like me chewed on fred flintstone and thought that all supps were BS for life, but it's built in to survive and be strong and healthy, it's just what we want, what we are as the most advanced species on the planet. We are simply free and self educated to the nth. We are experiencing what others would if only they could. I image that as the vast majority of people aren't healthy in the US given the obesity epidemic, that they just don't think they ever could be healthy no matter what... so those of us who are doing something about it look crazy to the helpless. Obesity is a terrible, progressive disease that leads to accelerated aging, loss of brain function, lost initiative, compromised thinking styles, depression, and so much more. Most just seem to accept it. We should be worried about them, not the other way around. 

 

And of course there are people who just seem to be healthy no matter what, lead perfect healthy lives, feel like they had it better than everyone else and welcome conventional aging etc. There are those with average lives who are satisfied with the cards they're dealt b/c they're better off than some others and they too will likely accept and welcome conventional aging. 

 

For the rest of us, we want more or can't be satisfied easily or adjust to a less than optimal life without fighting tooth and nail. The vantage point of people who aren't like us have continually developed profitable, but less than effective medicine as far as we're concerned and we can do better, faster, and more. We can leapfrog the medical status quo and bring about a lossless revolution where only Death and Aging. We are a Life and Level of Health unto the world! We are not hypochondriacs, we are not narcissists, but we are vain, and vanity is nothing but the outward display of survival, talent, fitness, health, and dedication to the former clouded by circumstance and genetics.

 

More than anything, people must be attracted to our results and desire to have us in their lives, but we would lose who we are and who we are trying to be. We couldn't be happy without being the kind of healthy that we're working towards and simply can't be happy with such a death and aging acceptance mindset.


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