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Trodusquemine Reverse Plaque - Group Buy Share Data

arterial plaque trodusquemine msi-1436 cardiovascular disease coronary arteries carotid arteries calcification mouse study cancer diabetes

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#331 smithx

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:05 PM

I received a message from someone claiming to be offering 99% pure claramine.

 

The message included an HPLC graph showing *something* at 99% purity. There's no indication that this is claraine. To establish that:

 

  • We would need to know the protocol and verify that it works with claramine. There are many HPLC protocols and they don't all work with every compound. Knowing the protocol would also establish what should be the retention time on the column, so we can get a rough idea of whether the graph is at all consistent with claramine
  • We would need to see the graph of their product (the "unknown") compared with a known-good "reference" sample of claramine from a trusted source. Without this, the HPLC shows only that *something* was pure, and says nothing at all about whether its claramine. The graphs should look identical in terms of retention time.
  • We would need to know where their known-good reference sample came from, so we have an idea if they really are comparing their sample to claramine

 

As provided, their HPLC graph is nothing like any proof that they have claramine, so please don't take it as such.

 

 

 

 



#332 smithx

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 07:38 PM

They followed up with more graphs, including NMR output. They also sent a quote supposedly from a paper regarding synthesis of claramine and including some NMR resonances.

 

This was also not proof of anything that I could see:

  • There was no citation to the paper that the quote came from
  • The NMR resonances listed in the paper didn't appear to match the ones in the graphs
  • They apparently never got a standard to compare their sample to, or just didn't see fit to mention it or show me any data on it or references.

They did offer to send me a free sample for analysis, but I can't do anything with a sample unless I have either:

  1. A known-good standard to compare it to or
  2. Known mass spec spectra or possibly NMR resonances to compare it to (neither of which I have)

 


Edited by smithx, 20 February 2020 - 07:39 PM.

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#333 ZCKZ

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:41 PM

No progress on this? Is the gmail active?

#334 Wookie

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 10:13 PM

Is anyone familiar with squalamine as a PTP1B inhibitor? Its a readily available supplement.

 

http://www.squalamine.com/

 

here is a source



#335 Wookie

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 10:20 PM

Did u guys do this yet? Im down for group buy. Whats the status?



#336 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 01:08 AM

http://www.squalamine.com/

 

here is a source

 

We looked at that previously, in this thread I think and determined that it was likely to contain a very small amount of squalamine.

 

I personally contacted the company and they couldn't give me a number for how much squalamine it contained.

 

I'd love to find out we were wrong about that though.


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#337 Wookie

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 01:26 AM

We looked at that previously, in this thread I think and determined that it was likely to contain a very small amount of squalamine.

 

I personally contacted the company and they couldn't give me a number for how much squalamine it contained.

 

I'd love to find out we were wrong about that though.

 

 

Thank you for the information. I am going to contact them tomorrow. Im new but these group buys dont seem to happen. Just how expensive is the Trod compound? Do u think Squalamine in high quanities would work similary to Trod? Some of the posters are highly intelligent, we just need to start trying these therapies until we find an answer. Im 100% in.



#338 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 01:18 PM

Thank you for the information. I am going to contact them tomorrow. Im new but these group buys dont seem to happen. Just how expensive is the Trod compound? Do u think Squalamine in high quanities would work similary to Trod? Some of the posters are highly intelligent, we just need to start trying these therapies until we find an answer. Im 100% in.

 

I would go ahead and try to contact them again.  The last time I called they told me they didn't measure the amount of squalamine in the product.  Maybe that's changed since then.

 

My strong suspicion is that if trodusquemine works that squalamine will work as well.  But, the evidence on trodusquemine is pretty early so we don't know with certainty that it works.

 

However, if I had a source for either of these compounds I'd try them tomorrow.  Provided you're getting a decent purity substance, I think the risk is low.  Worst case is you might be out of some money.


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#339 Wookie

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 09:34 PM

I would go ahead and try to contact them again.  The last time I called they told me they didn't measure the amount of squalamine in the product.  Maybe that's changed since then.

 

My strong suspicion is that if trodusquemine works that squalamine will work as well.  But, the evidence on trodusquemine is pretty early so we don't know with certainty that it works.

 

However, if I had a source for either of these compounds I'd try them tomorrow.  Provided you're getting a decent purity substance, I think the risk is low.  Worst case is you might be out of some money.

 

 

Thank you for your quick reply^^

 

I called and left a couple message today. I have some thoughts/question? Todusquemine is a one dose treatment. Is it possible that dosing with Squalamine daily would be harmful or maybe cause it to be ineffective especially if you start off with a less than optimal dose?

 

Also if Squalmax has a small amount of Squalamine in it, I wonder what dose you would need to take? 

 

I did find a source of Trodusquemine. Its pricey and I have no idea the dosage needed for treatment.

 

https://aobious.com/...e-msi-1436.html

 

 

I took Cyclodextrin (2 hydro b etc.....) I could not tolerate it orally, caused near panic attacks at 2.5 grams per day. I am thinking of starting up again at a lower dose. It did affect my circulation %100. It made my feet sweat but it also took the bulging veins out of my hands and arms so I dont know what to think.

 

http://www.lelworld....a-cyclodextrin/



#340 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 09:57 PM

If trodusquemine works in one dose, then I suspect that squalamine would probably work in one dose.  But there's two "if's" cascaded there.  We're not 100% sure trodusquemine works and the results so far are counter intuitive (one dose seemed to work but repeated doses didn't - very strange) and the second if is if squalamine has the same effect.  There's some evidence that this would be the case - except for any application that needs to cross the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB).  The Parkinson's people have an interest in trodusquemine as it seems to be effective in treating that disease but it must obviously cross the BBB in that application and squalamine does not.

 

The problem with cyclodextrin is that it really doesn't much make it through the gut intact when taken orally.  There's some evidence (somewhere in this thread) that it might help prevent atherosclerosis if taken orally, but the only evidence for it reversing atherosclerosis is when it is given IV, in which case there is a possibility of significant hearing damage.

 

Since cyclodextrin doesn't make it through the gut, I think there may be two different MOAs here.  We know that when you consume it orally with a meal it can sequester fats inside it's ring so that they aren't digested and are instead excreted in the waste. It's actually sold as a diet aid for this application and it does to an extent work like that. So my suspicion is that it's lowering the risk of artherosclerosis by simply reducing your effective fat intake.  

 

When given IV so that you get significant blood plasma levels it seems to reprogram macrophages and revert them from a pathological state (i.e. foam cells) back to their normal state where they can clear plaques from the arteries.  Unfortunately if you get enough cyclodextrin in the bloodstream to do that, you have the hearing damage risk.  An unfortunate Catch-22.  My suspicion is that if you're looking to reverse arterial plaques, it just isn't going to work taken orally.  

 

There was a new article on trodusquemine published this year and I believe there is a link in this thread. If not I can look it up and post it.  Hopefully there will be new studies soon that will at least give us more solid footing on whether or not it works.

 


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#341 Wookie

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 10:28 PM

 

 

The problem with cyclodextrin is that it really doesn't much make it through the gut intact when taken orally.  There's some evidence (somewhere in this thread) that it might help prevent atherosclerosis if taken orally, but the only evidence for it reversing atherosclerosis is when it is given IV, in which case there is a possibility of significant hearing damage.

 

Since cyclodextrin doesn't make it through the gut, I think there may be two different MOAs here.  We know that when you consume it orally with a meal it can sequester fats inside it's ring so that they aren't digested and are instead excreted in the waste. It's actually sold as a diet aid for this application and it does to an extent work like that. So my suspicion is that it's lowering the risk of artherosclerosis by simply reducing your effective fat intake.  

 

 

 

I have taken the fat burner cyclodextrin A from Life Extension, at higher dosages (2 to 4 grams per day) very little to no side effects. However the 2 - Hydroxypropyl Beta-Cylcodextrin is a different animal. It definitely had a strong effect on me. It caused panic attacks, maybe it overburdened the liver?? Either way my circulation was effected, but it doesnt mean it made it out of my gut. 


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#342 Wookie

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 06:02 PM

I would go ahead and try to contact them again.  The last time I called they told me they didn't measure the amount of squalamine in the product.  Maybe that's changed since then.

 

My strong suspicion is that if trodusquemine works that squalamine will work as well.  But, the evidence on trodusquemine is pretty early so we don't know with certainty that it works.

 

However, if I had a source for either of these compounds I'd try them tomorrow.  Provided you're getting a decent purity substance, I think the risk is low.  Worst case is you might be out of some money.

 

Ok found a source and dosage for Squalamine,130 mcg per capsule. No idea how much is needed.

 

https://www.cantron....cals/squal.html



#343 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:02 PM

Ok found a source and dosage for Squalamine,130 mcg per capsule. No idea how much is needed.

 

https://www.cantron....cals/squal.html

 

How much is needed will require looking at the trodusquemine study, converting from mouse/rat (which ever they used) to a HED (human equivalent dosage) which is easy, then consider the delivery method that was used and try to come up with an equivalent oral dose (assuming they weren't dosing the lab animals orally - honestly I don't remember).

 

I would just assume a 1:1 equivalence between trodusquemine and squalamine for our purposes.

 

Once we do that, I'm betting that we're going to come up with a dosage far greater than 130 micrograms.  It will probably be in the 100s of milligrams (just a guess).  Which will likely make using that product impractical. 

 

It's sort of coming back to me why we were initially enthusiastic about Squalamax then suddenly not.  :sad:

 

I think this dosage estimate work has already been done in one of these threads that discusses trodusquemine .  Unfortunately this wasn't the only such thread.


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 04 August 2020 - 08:03 PM.


#344 PatrickW

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 03:37 PM

Hey everyone I discovered and joined LongeCity just because of this conversation.  I had a heart attack and two stents implanted almost a year ago.  It was from Lipoprotein(a)-based plaque formation, which from what I understand is completely genetic and not controlled by diet.  I'm otherwise healthy and strong as an ox so this was a complete surprise because my doctors never tested me for LP(a) until AFTER my heart attack, not 10 years ago when I could have done something with Natural Medicine to address the plaque (Linus Pauling protocol, Vitamin K2, Serrapeptase and Nattokinase supplements, etc.). 
 
I've been on the Linus Pauling protocol since my heart attack, which annoys my cardiologist to no end since he's very opposed to alternative therapies.  I just got the results of a coronary CT angiogram which showed a 10% plaque reduction in my LAD compared with the catheter images from a year ago, but being more global in scope it showed I also have dangerous levels of plaque in other areas which the traditional angiogram from a year ago did not explore.  It’s the first CT angiogram I’ve ever had so they have nothing but the traditional angiogram to compare it to.  My cardiologist won’t acknowledge that the Linus Pauling protocol might be slowly helping clear the plaque, and he is trying to talk me into having a quadruple bypass rather than continuing as I am (I plan on adding Serrapeptase and Nattokinase once I’m off the Brilinta blood thinner in just a few weeks).
 
The type of plaque I have is soft and a perfect candidate for Trodusquemine, so I’m very motivated to try it.  I have read through this entire discussion and it seems there’s some confusion about dosing.  I watched a video with Dr. Kevin Strange of Nova Biosciences (who is researching Trodusquemine), and I thought I heard him say they achieved amazing results in mice experiments with a super low dose.  It was hard to catch what he said, but I thought it was 1mg per kilogram of body weight.  He says it around time index 7:45 in this video:
 
 
I realize this use case for Trodusquemine focuses on heart muscle repair, but I would think mild to moderate plaque reduction and vascular repair would be a much lighter lift. 
 
So basically that would only be around 12mg for a 100 kilogram guy.  While still expensive (probably around $3,000), it’s certainly something I would be willing to try before I get carved up like a Thanksgiving Turkey.  Can someone take a listen at that time index and let me know if I heard that correctly?  Also are there any other takers for a 12mg dose?  Even if we can’t get a group discount, maybe we could work together for sourcing and administration strategies.
 
Thanks!
 

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#345 Gal220

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 03:17 AM

 

 
I've been on the Linus Pauling protocol since my heart attack, which annoys my cardiologist to no end since he's very opposed to alternative therapies. 

 

 

Which LP protocol are you using exactly? This is the best formulation I have found so far, maybe some ideas to add to yours.  It also works better keeping your sugar under control.

Direct collagen and kyloic garlic(see studies by Matthew Budoff MD) may also help.

 

All the hub bub about POM juice and plaque was apparently due a certain bacteria some people have in their gut that produces Urolithin if you werent already aware - its for sale as mitopure, real pricey.

 

Other threads

Reversing arterial plaque

Patrick Theut protocol



#346 Wookie

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 03:25 PM

Which LP protocol are you using exactly? This is the best formulation I have found so far, maybe some ideas to add to yours.  It also works better keeping your sugar under control.

Direct collagen and kyloic garlic(see studies by Matthew Budoff MD) may also help.

 

All the hub bub about POM juice and plaque was apparently due a certain bacteria some people have in their gut that produces Urolithin if you werent already aware - its for sale as mitopure, real pricey.

 

Other threads

Reversing arterial plaque

Patrick Theut protocol

What is direct collagen? 

I would love to see peoples exact regiments

I too would like to know what doses Patrick is using.

I take 5 grams vit C. 2 grams each L carnitine, Lysine, proline. 1 gram taurine ( I would take more but body can only tolerate so much )

I also take aged garlic. Vit e. Mag. weilder vit K2. 2 grams fish oil. Pomegranate extract. Vit D 5000IU. Profibe. proargi 9.

Then 1 300mg Nad+

500 to 1000mg Carnosine and most important I feel for me 4 to 8 grams of chondroitin sulfate (I feel this has boosted my cardio more than everything else combined). Does CS act the same as collagen?

I fast 20 hours a day. healthy diet, lots of EVOO. I cant seem to shake carbs (bread) tho.....



#347 Gal220

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:34 PM

vitamin c competes with sugar for insulin, taking collagen(I prefer sports research, but there are many good ones out there) should reduce that competition some.  However, I would think with 20 hours of fasting, you have your sugar under control.

 

Looks like a solid regimen to me, maybe do 1 gram of fish oil and 1 gram of cod liver oil so you know you are getting some natural vitamin A.

 

 

I keep seeing articles about EVOO not being necessarily healthy though, something to read up on. - link1, link2

 

"After the olive oil and bread combination, however, blood flow plummeted 34% -- exactly the effect that Vogel had seen in previous research after volunteers ate a Big Mac with fries."

 

"The bitter truth is that, as Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn points out, “Between 14 and 17 percent of olive oil is saturated, artery-clogging fat—every bit as aggressive in promoting heart disease as the saturated fat in roast beef.”


Edited by Gal220, 10 September 2020 - 05:37 PM.

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#348 PatrickW

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 06:23 PM

Which LP protocol are you using exactly? This is the best formulation I have found so far, maybe some ideas to add to yours.  It also works better keeping your sugar under control.

Direct collagen and kyloic garlic(see studies by Matthew Budoff MD) may also help.

 

All the hub bub about POM juice and plaque was apparently due a certain bacteria some people have in their gut that produces Urolithin if you werent already aware - its for sale as mitopure, real pricey.

 

Other threads

Reversing arterial plaque

Patrick Theut protocol

 

My protocol is very close to what you have under the "best formulation" link, but I use individual supplements to adjust the dosages.  For example, since I'm on a blood thinner, I use less vitamin E.  But I use a lot more C since the therapeutic dose is around 12 grams a day. I take time-released C and spread it throughout the day.  I also take Liposomal Vitamin C which is supposed to be absorbed better and achieve higher plasma levels.  Thanks so much for that Reversing Arterial Plaque link which was an interview with Patrick Theut.  I watched the whole thing and learned a lot.  Never heard of him before but he's awesome - using engineering and chemistry to approach medical issues - much like Pauling did.  I'm still a little confused about whether or not I should supplement with K1 since I have to worry about thrombosis if any of my soft plaques rupture, and I understand K1 helps in blood coagulation.  I have added K2 to my protocol in the forms of MK4 and MK7 since from what I understand they help remove arterial plaque without presenting a thrombosis risk.  I'll actually be off my blood thinner (Brilinta) in a couple weeks and I will be adding Serrapeptase and Nattokinase to my protocol.  


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#349 PatrickW

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 06:33 PM

What is direct collagen? 

I would love to see peoples exact regiments

I too would like to know what doses Patrick is using.

I take 5 grams vit C. 2 grams each L carnitine, Lysine, proline. 1 gram taurine ( I would take more but body can only tolerate so much )

I also take aged garlic. Vit e. Mag. weilder vit K2. 2 grams fish oil. Pomegranate extract. Vit D 5000IU. Profibe. proargi 9.

Then 1 300mg Nad+

500 to 1000mg Carnosine and most important I feel for me 4 to 8 grams of chondroitin sulfate (I feel this has boosted my cardio more than everything else combined). Does CS act the same as collagen?

I fast 20 hours a day. healthy diet, lots of EVOO. I cant seem to shake carbs (bread) tho.....

 

This is what I'm taking for now.  I just started working with a Natural Medicine doctor, so I may fine tune things a bit in the coming weeks:

 

Alpha Lipoic Acid 250mg 2X /day - Anti-Inflamatory, Antioxidant, hearing repair

Bronson Super B Complex 1 pill at night.
DHEA 50mg 1x morning (hormone booster)
Glutathione 500, 2X day, (antioxidant, hearing, boosts immunity)
Hawthorn Extract 600mg 2X day for blood pressure
Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract, 1200mg twice daily (arterial plaque reduction).
L-Carnitine 1500mg   2X day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction, also helps recovery after heart attack).  Also good for HF hearing.
L-Lysine 3,000 mg 2X /day, binds to LP(a) in blood so it does not fill cracks in arteries.  Can also draw out LP(a) already adhering to artery wall in plaques.
L-Proline  1500mg 2X /day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction). Like L-Lysine, binds to LP(a) in the blood so less will stick to arterial walls.
Nicotinamide Riboside (NR), 300 mg, morning dose (anti-aging)
Palmitoleic Acid (Omega-7), Organic Sea Buckthorn oil, 500mg twice daily : Plaque and inflamation reduction
Phosphatidyl Choline, 830mg /day, (Helps cell membranes remain youthful, particularly arterial, heart, and brain cells)
Pomegranate Extract 500mg 2X day, Plaque reduction
Quercetin with Bromelain, 1,600 mg / 330 mg (2 pills), twice daily, anti-viral and anti-inflammatory effects
Resveratrol 200 mg/day, morning and night dose (anti-aging)
Turmeric Curcumin 2,250 mg 2X day for inflamation - Best taken with some fatty food for absorption. A VERY powerful anti-inflammatory.
Ubiquinol 200 mg, 2X per day, More bio-available form of CoQ10, Protects arteries from damage, anti-oxident, heart-healthy
Vitamin C Time Release 4,000mg 3x day, keeps arteries smooth and flexible via collagen replacement, repairs damage before LP(a) can get in and form plaque.  
Vitamin D-3, 10,000 IU /day in single morning dose  /Blood pressure reduction;
Vitamin E, 200 IU, 1X per day morning dose
Zinc Picolinate 30 mg twice daily.  Thorne brand; immune function, helps heart muscle, reduces oxidative stress on heart muscle tissue, helps Vitamin E and Glutathione work more effectively
Pycnogenol 100 mg 2X / day, Centellicum 257 mg 2X / day, for arterial soft plaque stabilization.
200 micrograms of K2 as MK7 each day with food.
15 mg of K2 as MK4, Thorne brand in liquid form.

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#350 Gal220

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 09:02 PM

Guessing you are also taking calc/mag and omegas, especially with that much D.  I would get your omegas from cod liver oil for the preform vitamin A.



#351 Wookie

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 04:42 PM

 

This is what I'm taking for now.  I just started working with a Natural Medicine doctor, so I may fine tune things a bit in the coming weeks:

 

Alpha Lipoic Acid 250mg 2X /day - Anti-Inflamatory, Antioxidant, hearing repair

Bronson Super B Complex 1 pill at night.
DHEA 50mg 1x morning (hormone booster)
Glutathione 500, 2X day, (antioxidant, hearing, boosts immunity)
Hawthorn Extract 600mg 2X day for blood pressure
Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract, 1200mg twice daily (arterial plaque reduction).
L-Carnitine 1500mg   2X day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction, also helps recovery after heart attack).  Also good for HF hearing.
L-Lysine 3,000 mg 2X /day, binds to LP(a) in blood so it does not fill cracks in arteries.  Can also draw out LP(a) already adhering to artery wall in plaques.
L-Proline  1500mg 2X /day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction). Like L-Lysine, binds to LP(a) in the blood so less will stick to arterial walls.
Nicotinamide Riboside (NR), 300 mg, morning dose (anti-aging)
Palmitoleic Acid (Omega-7), Organic Sea Buckthorn oil, 500mg twice daily : Plaque and inflamation reduction
Phosphatidyl Choline, 830mg /day, (Helps cell membranes remain youthful, particularly arterial, heart, and brain cells)
Pomegranate Extract 500mg 2X day, Plaque reduction
Quercetin with Bromelain, 1,600 mg / 330 mg (2 pills), twice daily, anti-viral and anti-inflammatory effects
Resveratrol 200 mg/day, morning and night dose (anti-aging)
Turmeric Curcumin 2,250 mg 2X day for inflamation - Best taken with some fatty food for absorption. A VERY powerful anti-inflammatory.
Ubiquinol 200 mg, 2X per day, More bio-available form of CoQ10, Protects arteries from damage, anti-oxident, heart-healthy
Vitamin C Time Release 4,000mg 3x day, keeps arteries smooth and flexible via collagen replacement, repairs damage before LP(a) can get in and form plaque.  
Vitamin D-3, 10,000 IU /day in single morning dose  /Blood pressure reduction;
Vitamin E, 200 IU, 1X per day morning dose
Zinc Picolinate 30 mg twice daily.  Thorne brand; immune function, helps heart muscle, reduces oxidative stress on heart muscle tissue, helps Vitamin E and Glutathione work more effectively
Pycnogenol 100 mg 2X / day, Centellicum 257 mg 2X / day, for arterial soft plaque stabilization.
200 micrograms of K2 as MK7 each day with food.
15 mg of K2 as MK4, Thorne brand in liquid form.

 

 

My protocol is very close to what you have under the "best formulation" link, but I use individual supplements to adjust the dosages.  For example, since I'm on a blood thinner, I use less vitamin E.  But I use a lot more C since the therapeutic dose is around 12 grams a day. I take time-released C and spread it throughout the day.  I also take Liposomal Vitamin C which is supposed to be absorbed better and achieve higher plasma levels.  Thanks so much for that Reversing Arterial Plaque link which was an interview with Patrick Theut.  I watched the whole thing and learned a lot.  Never heard of him before but he's awesome - using engineering and chemistry to approach medical issues - much like Pauling did.  I'm still a little confused about whether or not I should supplement with K1 since I have to worry about thrombosis if any of my soft plaques rupture, and I understand K1 helps in blood coagulation.  I have added K2 to my protocol in the forms of MK4 and MK7 since from what I understand they help remove arterial plaque without presenting a thrombosis risk.  I'll actually be off my blood thinner (Brilinta) in a couple weeks and I will be adding Serrapeptase and Nattokinase to my protocol.  

 

Hey Patrick. I take Omega 7 and arterial protect as well:) Does your natural medicine guy recommend a specific diet?

 

Gal220, The EVOO is a recommendation from Gundry. (The plant paradox). He is a former cardiologist and now he recommends diet and supplements over triple bypasses. EVOO is the foundation of his diet. I use very very high polyphenol EVOO. I am posting 2 links. One for EVOO and the other is a study of 600 high risk people that all lived following a low lectin diet and a couple of supplements and tons of EVOO.

 

https://www.ahajourn....36.suppl_1.404

 

https://www.lifeexte...HkaAh4TEALw_wcB

 

I had spoken with Caldwell in 2007, very nice man. However after 6 months on his diet I could no longer do it. I dont know if anyone has all the answers because we are all different.

 

I really appreciate the communication and feed back!



#352 Gal220

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 03:54 PM

 

I fast 20 hours a day. healthy diet, lots of EVOO. I cant seem to shake carbs (bread) tho.....

 

If you have a bread store, whole wheat sour dough bread might be a little healthier option, or eikhorn bread

 

EVOO has people on both sides, the Vogel study with 30% reduction in blood flow is scary.  Mixing with red wine seems to help .  

 

I certainly think you could clear your arteries without it though.



#353 granmasutensil

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 11:12 AM

If trodusquemine works in one dose, then I suspect that squalamine would probably work in one dose.  But there's two "if's" cascaded there.  We're not 100% sure trodusquemine works and the results so far are counter intuitive (one dose seemed to work but repeated doses didn't - very strange) and the second if is if squalamine has the same effect.  There's some evidence that this would be the case - except for any application that needs to cross the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB).  The Parkinson's people have an interest in trodusquemine as it seems to be effective in treating that disease but it must obviously cross the BBB in that application and squalamine does not.

 

The problem with cyclodextrin is that it really doesn't much make it through the gut intact when taken orally.  There's some evidence (somewhere in this thread) that it might help prevent atherosclerosis if taken orally, but the only evidence for it reversing atherosclerosis is when it is given IV, in which case there is a possibility of significant hearing damage.

 

Since cyclodextrin doesn't make it through the gut, I think there may be two different MOAs here.  We know that when you consume it orally with a meal it can sequester fats inside it's ring so that they aren't digested and are instead excreted in the waste. It's actually sold as a diet aid for this application and it does to an extent work like that. So my suspicion is that it's lowering the risk of artherosclerosis by simply reducing your effective fat intake.  

 

When given IV so that you get significant blood plasma levels it seems to reprogram macrophages and revert them from a pathological state (i.e. foam cells) back to their normal state where they can clear plaques from the arteries.  Unfortunately if you get enough cyclodextrin in the bloodstream to do that, you have the hearing damage risk.  An unfortunate Catch-22.  My suspicion is that if you're looking to reverse arterial plaques, it just isn't going to work taken orally.  

 

There was a new article on trodusquemine published this year and I believe there is a link in this thread. If not I can look it up and post it.  Hopefully there will be new studies soon that will at least give us more solid footing on whether or not it works.

 

Regarding cyclodextrin. Ever consider putting in enteric coated capsules? They are easy to find nowadays, 500 capsules are like 10 dollars on amazon.

 



#354 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 11:30 AM

Regarding cyclodextrin. Ever consider putting in enteric coated capsules? They are easy to find nowadays, 500 capsules are like 10 dollars on amazon.

 

 

You're back to the catch-22.

 

If you find a way to get the cyclodextrin pass the digestive system and into the bloodstream, you're a risk to kill hair cells in the ear and cause significant hearing loss.

 

High enough plasma concentrations of CD are probably high enough to cause hearing damage.



#355 Lucass

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Posted 15 September 2020 - 05:41 AM

 

This is what I'm taking for now.  I just started working with a Natural Medicine doctor, so I may fine tune things a bit in the coming weeks:

 

Alpha Lipoic Acid 250mg 2X /day - Anti-Inflamatory, Antioxidant, hearing repair

Bronson Super B Complex 1 pill at night.
DHEA 50mg 1x morning (hormone booster)
Glutathione 500, 2X day, (antioxidant, hearing, boosts immunity)
Hawthorn Extract 600mg 2X day for blood pressure
Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract, 1200mg twice daily (arterial plaque reduction).
L-Carnitine 1500mg   2X day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction, also helps recovery after heart attack).  Also good for HF hearing.
L-Lysine 3,000 mg 2X /day, binds to LP(a) in blood so it does not fill cracks in arteries.  Can also draw out LP(a) already adhering to artery wall in plaques.
L-Proline  1500mg 2X /day; (for Lipoprotein(a) reduction). Like L-Lysine, binds to LP(a) in the blood so less will stick to arterial walls.
Nicotinamide Riboside (NR), 300 mg, morning dose (anti-aging)
Palmitoleic Acid (Omega-7), Organic Sea Buckthorn oil, 500mg twice daily : Plaque and inflamation reduction
Phosphatidyl Choline, 830mg /day, (Helps cell membranes remain youthful, particularly arterial, heart, and brain cells)
Pomegranate Extract 500mg 2X day, Plaque reduction
Quercetin with Bromelain, 1,600 mg / 330 mg (2 pills), twice daily, anti-viral and anti-inflammatory effects
Resveratrol 200 mg/day, morning and night dose (anti-aging)
Turmeric Curcumin 2,250 mg 2X day for inflamation - Best taken with some fatty food for absorption. A VERY powerful anti-inflammatory.
Ubiquinol 200 mg, 2X per day, More bio-available form of CoQ10, Protects arteries from damage, anti-oxident, heart-healthy
Vitamin C Time Release 4,000mg 3x day, keeps arteries smooth and flexible via collagen replacement, repairs damage before LP(a) can get in and form plaque.  
Vitamin D-3, 10,000 IU /day in single morning dose  /Blood pressure reduction;
Vitamin E, 200 IU, 1X per day morning dose
Zinc Picolinate 30 mg twice daily.  Thorne brand; immune function, helps heart muscle, reduces oxidative stress on heart muscle tissue, helps Vitamin E and Glutathione work more effectively
Pycnogenol 100 mg 2X / day, Centellicum 257 mg 2X / day, for arterial soft plaque stabilization.
200 micrograms of K2 as MK7 each day with food.
15 mg of K2 as MK4, Thorne brand in liquid form.

 

You take quite a lot of stuf.. Just curious, how is hair on your head?


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#356 Gal220

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Posted 15 September 2020 - 02:42 PM

You take quite a lot of stuf.. Just curious, how is hair on your head?

 

Maybe it says more about me ... but I think its a pretty normal list, especially for someone dealing with plaque.  I would actaually add cod liver oil and calc/mag



#357 PatrickW

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 02:33 PM

Maybe it says more about me ... but I think its a pretty normal list, especially for someone dealing with plaque.  I would actaually add cod liver oil and calc/mag

Hello Lucass - The hair on my head is fine - no bald spots if that's what you're asking.

 

Thanks Gal220 - I actually did just add the following recently based on discussion with my Natural Medicine doctor:

 

Magnesium Citrate, 800 mg 2X /day, Fat soluble

Selenium, 100 mcg 2X /day - Increases free T3 thyroid output, Fat soluble
Astaxanthin, 4mg 2X day, supresses MMP-2 and MMP-9, lowers colon cancer risk, Fat soluble
 
I think I get enough dietary calcium, and I want to be sure what I get is shuttled to bone and teeth by vitamin K2 rather than winding up in my arteries.  I will look into cod liver oil.


#358 PatrickW

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 03:39 PM

Hey Patrick. I take Omega 7 and arterial protect as well:) Does your natural medicine guy recommend a specific diet?

 

Gal220, The EVOO is a recommendation from Gundry. (The plant paradox). He is a former cardiologist and now he recommends diet and supplements over triple bypasses. EVOO is the foundation of his diet. I use very very high polyphenol EVOO. I am posting 2 links. One for EVOO and the other is a study of 600 high risk people that all lived following a low lectin diet and a couple of supplements and tons of EVOO.

 

https://www.ahajourn....36.suppl_1.404

 

https://www.lifeexte...HkaAh4TEALw_wcB

 

I had spoken with Caldwell in 2007, very nice man. However after 6 months on his diet I could no longer do it. I dont know if anyone has all the answers because we are all different.

 

I really appreciate the communication and feed back!

 

Hello Wookie.  I did also add Pycnogenol 100 mg 1X /day, Centellicum 257 mg 1X /day (as Life Extension Arterial Protect).  Since my plaque is soft, I'm hoping to stabilize it enough to avoid a rupture, thrombosis, and the resulting "cardiac event."  This as I work to have it absorbed by my supplement regiment - in particular the vitamin K2's I'm taking, and the Serrapeptase and Nattokinase I will be adding in just another week once I'm off the Brilinta blood thinner I've been on for the past year after the two stents I had implanted.  My Natural Medicine guy as you might expect is big on a vegetable diet - particularly brightly colored vegetables.  I get about 60% of my calories from vegetables, and the rest is fish and very lean meat (organic chicken breasts without the skin). So I think I'm doing pretty well there.  But from what I understand you can't get K2 from vegetables, as it's a byproduct of fermentation (usually from our own gut bacteria, or from animal products we consume).  K2 is what I've needed in high doses all along for my plaque, so I need to get that through supplementation.  The Japanese food Natto has a lot of K2, but there's no way I'm eating that.  I wish I had known about all this 10 years ago, but mainstream Western medicine is so focused on profit (keeping people alive but in an expensive dependent disease state with surgery always at the ready) that we're really on our own here.  I think future generations will look at our time as the dark ages of postmodern medicine when the profit motive kept people in a disease state and carved them up like Thanksgiving turkeys just because they have some fat in their arteries which could have been avoided by simple means.


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#359 Wookie

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 01:47 PM

You're back to the catch-22.

 

If you find a way to get the cyclodextrin pass the digestive system and into the bloodstream, you're a risk to kill hair cells in the ear and cause significant hearing loss.

 

High enough plasma concentrations of CD are probably high enough to cause hearing damage.

 

Do we know how cyclodextrins work? Could they be affecting the microbiome and inducing these cardiovascular changes that way?



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#360 Wookie

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 01:57 PM

Hello Wookie.  I did also add Pycnogenol 100 mg 1X /day, Centellicum 257 mg 1X /day (as Life Extension Arterial Protect).  Since my plaque is soft, I'm hoping to stabilize it enough to avoid a rupture, thrombosis, and the resulting "cardiac event."  This as I work to have it absorbed by my supplement regiment - in particular the vitamin K2's I'm taking, and the Serrapeptase and Nattokinase I will be adding in just another week once I'm off the Brilinta blood thinner I've been on for the past year after the two stents I had implanted.  My Natural Medicine guy as you might expect is big on a vegetable diet - particularly brightly colored vegetables.  I get about 60% of my calories from vegetables, and the rest is fish and very lean meat (organic chicken breasts without the skin). So I think I'm doing pretty well there.  But from what I understand you can't get K2 from vegetables, as it's a byproduct of fermentation (usually from our own gut bacteria, or from animal products we consume).  K2 is what I've needed in high doses all along for my plaque, so I need to get that through supplementation.  The Japanese food Natto has a lot of K2, but there's no way I'm eating that.  I wish I had known about all this 10 years ago, but mainstream Western medicine is so focused on profit (keeping people alive but in an expensive dependent disease state with surgery always at the ready) that we're really on our own here.  I think future generations will look at our time as the dark ages of postmodern medicine when the profit motive kept people in a disease state and carved them up like Thanksgiving turkeys just because they have some fat in their arteries which could have been avoided by simple means.

 

I think over all you are aces. You are very disciplined with your diet. You take a boat load of heart healthy supplements. 

 

 

The only other thing you could possible do imo is look at chondroition sulfate and adding a lot of very high polyphenol olive oil.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: arterial plaque, trodusquemine, msi-1436, cardiovascular disease, coronary arteries, carotid arteries, calcification, mouse study, cancer, diabetes

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