is it possible not to have any fear?
TheBatman 12 Mar 2015
Well with regard to the tiger reference, fear was very useful in prehistoric times. if you weren't afraid when a mammoth was going to eat you, you died. Your genes were wiped out and only those who were fearful lived. Their genes were passed on. Lets pretend I said an artic saber toothed tiger.
The same fear is present whenever we do a presentation, go out on a date, or do an interview. But its a redundant, useless fear. Our brains actually think that we are in a life-threatening situation, that we are faced with a tiger, its what evolution has wired us to think. Fear is useful when we want to run, for example If I'm a teenager and I throw an egg at a house and the cops arrive, it's good that I'm afraid so I can peg it. But its only really good in terms of knowing when to run away. To be honest, I havn't been in that many life-threatening situations, and a tiger hasn't chased me in a while. I've had to deal with interviews, dates and presentations much more regularly, where I could have done with a good dose of fearlessness.
Of course fear may be useful in certain situations. But its too prevalent. Ask Muhammad Ali would he rather have been safe and lived in fear as opposed to being fearless. Better to die brave than live a coward.
On that note take the gram of phenibut. Taking it in 100mg increments is pointless, you simply won't make any progress doing things that slowly. Unless you have serious medical conditions just do it, I can't really see a worse case scenario, you don't really react well, you have a bad day, then you stop taking it and are much the wiser for it and can move on to try a gram of the next substance that may work for you.
Fortune favours the brave:)
Being afraid isn't just useful for running away and it is just as needed now as it has always been. On any given day we could die from a car crash, gun shot, choking ect.
Fear is a form of intelligence that not only keeps you alive, but keeps you from doing things that will hurt your quality of life. Fearing certain mundane things can be helpful because it motivates you to succeed. Fearing a job interview might seem unnecessary, but having an income has the potential to make you more happy than you would be living on the street.
But obviously too much fear is bad thing.
Eon - IMO experience is what defeats fear. Also money. Lots of it.
Strangelove 12 Mar 2015
Well with regard to the tiger reference, fear was very useful in prehistoric times. if you weren't afraid when a mammoth was going to eat you, you died. Your genes were wiped out and only those who were fearful lived. Their genes were passed on. Lets pretend I said an artic saber toothed tiger.
The same fear is present whenever we do a presentation, go out on a date, or do an interview. But its a redundant, useless fear. Our brains actually think that we are in a life-threatening situation, that we are faced with a tiger, its what evolution has wired us to think. Fear is useful when we want to run, for example If I'm a teenager and I throw an egg at a house and the cops arrive, it's good that I'm afraid so I can peg it. But its only really good in terms of knowing when to run away. To be honest, I havn't been in that many life-threatening situations, and a tiger hasn't chased me in a while. I've had to deal with interviews, dates and presentations much more regularly, where I could have done with a good dose of fearlessness.
Of course fear may be useful in certain situations. But its too prevalent. Ask Muhammad Ali would he rather have been safe and lived in fear as opposed to being fearless. Better to die brave than live a coward.
On that note take the gram of phenibut. Taking it in 100mg increments is pointless, you simply won't make any progress doing things that slowly. Unless you have serious medical conditions just do it, I can't really see a worse case scenario, you don't really react well, you have a bad day, then you stop taking it and are much the wiser for it and can move on to try a gram of the next substance that may work for you.
Fortune favours the brave:)
Being afraid isn't just useful for running away and it is just as needed now as it has always been. On any given day we could die from a car crash, gun shot, choking ect.
Fear is a form of intelligence that not only keeps you alive, but keeps you from doing things that will hurt your quality of life. Fearing certain mundane things can be helpful because it motivates you to succeed. Fearing a job interview might seem unnecessary, but having an income has the potential to make you more happy than you would be living on the street.
But obviously too much fear is bad thing.
Eon - IMO experience is what defeats fear. Also money. Lots of it.
Respectfully disagree, fear/anxiety is calibrated way higher in the human brain than is needed in modern times. I think we need more rationality to succeed in the modern world, no negative emotions. I think very succesful businessmen and politicians succeed in part having a cool/resilient disposition to start with. Many more personality characteristics are needed of course.
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Strangelove 18 Mar 2015
Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.
stolpioni 20 Mar 2015
True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.
A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.
eon 20 Mar 2015
I already know fear, so how do I become a sociopath?
A sociopath is defined as:
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
But the thing is I think if you know fear already, you would have a conscience, you just want it gone since it's not exactly needed. It would be a different story if one is simply born without fear then that person would be completely inconsiderate and narcissistic.
Now a psychopath is defined as:
a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.
I already have experience with FEAR therefore I'm familiar with it, the whole thread is about how do you banish all fears, now that I know what it's all about.
Edited by eon, 20 March 2015 - 11:34 AM.
eon 20 Mar 2015
so sociopaths/psychopaths may have a defect in their amygdala then? Possibly.
True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.
A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.
eon 20 Mar 2015
that thread seem to have died off but some interesting chemicals and 7,8-DHF was also mentioned. But what do you think of this one:
Anxiety[edit]
Another psychiatric use of guanfacine is for treatment of anxiety, such as generalized anxiety disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms. Guanfacine and other α2Aagonists reduce sympathetic arousal in the emotional responses of the amygdala, and strengthen prefrontal cortical regulation of emotion, action and thought. Due to its prolonged half-life, it also has been seen to improve sleep interrupted by nightmares in PTSD patients.[21] All of these actions likely contribute to the relief of the hyperarousal, re-experiencing of memory, and impulsivity associated with PTSD.[22] However, a recent study showed no benefit for patients suffering from PTSD.[23]
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Guanfacine
Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.
stolpioni 20 Mar 2015
so sociopaths/psychopaths may have a defect in their amygdala then? Possibly.
True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.
A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.
I don't exactly know. This book is interesting:
http://www.amazon.co...ords=psychopath
In it Kevin Dutton (the author) injected himself with a substance that essentially made him a psychopath for 30 or so minutes. Then he described what it felt like.
Here's an old thread about this:
vannessa.wells2 04 Apr 2015
It is unlikely, but definitely possible. There are certain types of medications for it, and brain injuries may cause no fear as well.
Edited by vannessa.wells2, 04 April 2015 - 06:10 PM.
eon 13 Apr 2015
Edited by eon, 13 April 2015 - 05:16 PM.
eon 19 Apr 2015
eon 23 Apr 2015
Here's another interesting drug:
Volunteers given the beta blocker propranolol scored lower on a range of psychological tests designed to reveal any racist attitudes than a group who took a placebo.[29] The amygdala is involved in processing emotion, including fear, and many psychologists think racist feelings are driven by the fear center. Propranolol inhibits the amygdala.[30]
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Propranolol
This drug was profiled in the Smart Drugs book series that I read and was one of my ideal drugs/nootropics. I have it but have not tried it yet.
Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.
Edited by eon, 23 April 2015 - 12:08 PM.
Strangelove 23 Apr 2015
I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.
eon 24 Apr 2015
not even if it inhibits the amygdala?
I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.
Strangelove 24 Apr 2015
Its good that you search in pubmed as you might find something novel, but then if online experiences exist, its not always what we are looking for in practical use.
I have tried propranolol in small doses, I do not have issues with physical manifestations of anxiety, but can help with tremor in performing arts, sweating, and some politicians use it in public speaking, but its effects are peripheral and you will not feel chilled like a benzo. I was only using benzos in the army and everyone thought I was weird in a good way. No issues with anxiety or fear whatever, I also got used to the slight hypnotic effect, I was getting in the beginning.
It was good, I personaly did not get any withdrawal or rebound anxiety, but I would not recommend due to the "horror" stories others have reported on line.
The best option I could think right now is the Gaba T inhibitor, Phenylethylidenehydrazine, Ceretropic might have it for sale in the future, after a recent failed atempt to synthesize it.
Edit:
Rosmarinic acid is a Gaba T inhibitor also, I just placed an order for it.
http://www.ebay.co.u...=item46388fd7b5
Also found this.
Effects of chronic administration of Melissa officinalis L. extract on anxiety-like reactivity and on circadian and exploratory activities in mice.
This study aimed to determine the effects of chronic (15 consecutive days of treatment) per os administration of Melissa officinalis L. extract (Cyracos, Naturex) on anxiety-like reactivity in mice. As measured by HPLC, Cyracos contains significant amounts of rosmarinic acid and the triterpenoids oleanolic acid and ursolic acid, which inhibit gamma-aminobutyric acid transaminase (GABA-T) activity and increase GABA levels in the brain (Awad et al., 2007; Awad et al., 2009). Thus, we evaluated Cyracos use in independent groups of C57BL/6 mice with regard to anxiety-like reactivity in an elevated plus maze and an open field task. We found that Cyracos significantly reduced anxiety-like reactivity in the elevated plus maze dose-dependently, but no significant effect was observed in the open field task. Parallel experiments in independent groups of mice showed that the Cyracosdose at which it exerted anxiolytic-like effects in the elevated plus maze did not alter exploratory or circadian activities. Therefore, our results demonstrate that Cyracos has anxiolytic-like effects under moderate stress conditions and does not alter activity levels.
Copyright 2010 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.
Edited by Strangelove, 24 April 2015 - 02:15 PM.
eon 25 Apr 2015
Strangelove 25 Apr 2015
Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.
eon 25 Apr 2015
I assumed Rosemary would be the ultimate source due to its name alone "rosmarinic acid".
Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.
Strangelove 19 May 2015
I assumed Rosemary would be the ultimate source due to its name alone "rosmarinic acid".
Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.
From what I remember is present in rosemary, lemon balm and sage. I was surprised that the sage extract pills that I bought from ebay were effective, I "only" used 3 times the recommended dosage (a few times now) and had a strong anxyolitic effect without sedation, I am impressed...
eon 20 May 2015
Strangelove, how did you like the lysine? How much were you taking? I had to stop because I'm currently on an amphetamine called Vyvanse (which has lysine). Remember it's how I discovered the effects of lysine by reading the profile of Vyvanse and the lysine attached to it.
Lysine was definitely anxiolytic, but its profile regarding its actions on the amygdala is still mixed to me. I wish it could vanish all fears. There was an article I read recently about how reading bad news may even cause PTSD in some people. I don't have the link for it but it's interesting that somehow what was read is stored in the memory and if it's written in a fear-mongering way the way bad news is usually sensationalized, that fear tactic in the news media grabs you and the fear of fear turns into a loop.
Edited by eon, 20 May 2015 - 10:02 AM.
Strangelove 20 May 2015
Strangelove, how did you like the lysine? How much were you taking? I had to stop because I'm currently on an amphetamine called Vyvanse (which has lysine). Remember it's how I discovered the effects of lysine by reading the profile of Vyvanse and the lysine attached to it.
Lysine was definitely anxiolytic, but its profile regarding its actions on the amygdala is still mixed to me. I wish it could vanish all fears. There was an article I read recently about how reading bad news may even cause PTSD in some people. I don't have the link for it but it's interesting that somehow what was read is stored in the memory and if it's written in a fear-mongering way the way bad news is usually sensationalized, that fear tactic in the news media grabs you and the fear of fear turns into a loop.
I did not have an immediate strong response with Lysine, this is why I discontinuate it, but I am reading it may need a while to see results. I ll try again in the future.
What you describe about fear and past stored memory is superbly explained (with "psychological exercises") in the book I linked before.
eon 21 May 2015
Seems like an interesting book but I don't get how reading it could manipulate the amygdala. Perhaps if something can be learned it can be unlearned is what the book's topic is? I'd prefer "actions" (drugs that work/drugs that have actions) rather than "words" (simply reading something may not do much since they're just words). If you've read the book Strangelove, do you have a summary of it?
eon 25 May 2015
you don't think propranolol inhibiting the amygdala is good enough?
Now regarding the 7,8-DHF, seems like it has potential but like you said not much studies on it. A few people have said (assuming) it may induce negative memories but I think it has a paradoxical effect meaning if one has day to day anxiety due to bad memories it can block it while others who have had bad experiences but do not have their experiences "activated" on a day to day basis (but rather suppressed), it may be activated when using 7,8-DHF.
I believe certain drugs has a paradoxical effect, amphetamine comes to mind. I'm surprised it makes me so calm when I was expecting this to make me jittery. In other words, I needed it? If I didn't then I would think I'd be hyper-active. Then again, I'm only on low dose Vyvanse (20 mg).
I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.
Edited by eon, 25 May 2015 - 01:55 AM.
Strangelove 25 May 2015
Yes, according to a large number of experiences on line (all of them) describe benefits in only greatly reducing the bodily effects of panic (fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor).
You might get new ideas from this thread
http://www.longecity...at-wont-sedate/
I am going to try afobazol next.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21861391
http://rupharma.com/products/afobazol
Also available in ebay for an even better price.
Heisenburger 25 May 2015
I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I tried afobazole for a couple of months and its effects were minimal at best. A stiff shot of Jack Daniels would likely have better effects. I have crippling, debilitating, pee-in-your-pants stage fright. Ten milligrams of propranolol and half a milligram of Xanax turns it off completely like flipping a light switch. I’m constantly getting compliments on my public speaking skills.
Strangelove 25 May 2015
I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I tried afobazole for a couple of months and its effects were minimal at best. A stiff shot of Jack Daniels would likely have better effects. I have crippling, debilitating, pee-in-your-pants stage fright. Ten milligrams of propranolol and half a milligram of Xanax turns it off completely like flipping a light switch. I’m constantly getting compliments on my public speaking skills.
Yea, I agree about the combination of propranolol and xanax, I am getting stage fright myself, I only felt the benefits that propranolol could give (in its absence) when I had to hold a piece of paper I was reading from, in a somewhat large audience, my hand was trembling as I was holding the paper in front of my face. I was feeling totally calm from the xanax and thought that is weird my hand is trembling, I am pretty sure the addition of propranolol would help in that instance.
Other people might have larger issues with bodily manifestations of anxiety, I was looking the Nixon movie again yesterday and propranolol could possibly give Nixon a solution to his sweating issue.
A941 26 May 2015
OFFTOPIC: Just visited this thread again and realized that i wrote the same thing 2x in the same posting (which was possible because I always copy the whole thing in case something goes wrong, so I dont have to write it again) sorry for that.
Heisenburger 26 May 2015
I was looking the Nixon movie again yesterday and propranolol could possibly give Nixon a solution to his sweating issue.
Maybe, but it probably wouldn't have done anything to hide the lies coming out through his teeth.
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eon 26 May 2015
Edited by eon, 26 May 2015 - 12:44 PM.