215 replies to this topic

[TheBatman]

 

is that right about candidiasis? I need to look it up then. I had tried some hydrochloric acid supplement to absorb food and it did help me feel better. I think probiotic do good for the stomach as well where 80% of out immune system is said to be in.

 

The whole candida thing is blown completely out of proportion.  Most people who think they have a problem with it actually do not.  The immune system is not primarily in the "stomach".

 

 

Certainly not a common cause of depression yes, but a known cause nonetheless. For anyone with a seemingly treatment resistant depression, it would at least be worth a try.

Edited by TheBatman, 10 September 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[niner]

 

The whole candida thing is blown completely out of proportion.  Most people who think they have a problem with it actually do not.  The immune system is not primarily in the "stomach".

 

Certainly not a common cause of depression yes, but a known cause nonetheless. For anyone with a seemingly treatment resistant depression, it would at least be worth a try.

 

That depends on what they've already tried, and on the costs and dangers of trying the candida treatment.    It certainly isn't the first thing to look at, and probably isn't the second or third.

[TheBatman]

 

 

The whole candida thing is blown completely out of proportion.  Most people who think they have a problem with it actually do not.  The immune system is not primarily in the "stomach".

 

Certainly not a common cause of depression yes, but a known cause nonetheless. For anyone with a seemingly treatment resistant depression, it would at least be worth a try.

 

That depends on what they've already tried, and on the costs and dangers of trying the candida treatment.    It certainly isn't the first thing to look at, and probably isn't the second or third.

 

 

Right I know that. Eon didn't seem to know what it was, so I was just informing him. 

 

I'm just saying for the unlucky individual that has tried everything, this may work.

[eon]

Is CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) helpful when it comes to anxiety? I believe someone mentioned it before but can't recall exactly if its' for fear/anxiety or OCD. Can CBT be learned and put to work just by reading a book about it? Is an actual therapist needed to perform CBT on an individual? I heard it's 80% effective yet not many know about CBT, it is not as mainstream in other words (according to the video news I just watched).

[eon]

read this article and tell me if it's implying that aspirin and other NSAIDs are good for anxiety. It is said to block COX enzymes, but is blocking the COX-2 more for relieving anxiety? Would that mean if aspirin had other chemical attached to it, it could work for anxiety?

 

http://medicalxpress...xiety.html#nRlv

 

I certainly feel chill when on aspirin for pain...

 

Maybe alpha linolenic acid would work for anxiety considering it reduces COX-2 expression:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?term=14563831

 

I don't supplement with ALA considering it is said to be common in the average American diet. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the dietary sources are oxidized form? I've seen ALA sold as supplements maybe there is a reason why take it? Although it isn't a popular supplement I don't think.

[Nemo888]

Brain injury works. After I got smashed up in the Army I didn't feel any fear for over a year. First time I did again I cried. You really miss it when it is gone. Many of the supplements spoken of here I tried, ironically for the exact opposite problem.

[eon]

you saying the supplements you tried induces fear? Your post didn't make sense or it's sarcastic.

 

Brain injury works. After I got smashed up in the Army I didn't feel any fear for over a year. First time I did again I cried. You really miss it when it is gone. Many of the supplements spoken of here I tried, ironically for the exact opposite problem.

 

[Nemo888]

My brain was not working correctly. I tried various supplements in an effort to correct what was wrong. Turned out to be a hormonal problem involving my HPA axis. But that took years to figure out. It's a long story

[eon]

how'd you figure it out and what supplements worked for you?

[Nemo888]

Tesoterone, human growth hormone and thymosin beta 4. But I suspect I am quite atypical.

[eon]

I've tried test enanthate and HGH Kigtropin, but not thymosin beta 4. Not sure what those have anything to do with not having fear though, those are bodybuilding drugs. LOL.

 

Tesoterone, human growth hormone and thymosin beta 4. But I suspect I am quite atypical.

 

[jroseland]

I would say possible yet very implausible. A little fear is healthy.

[Nemo888]

With an injured pituitary you lose the first two. Your HPA tries to make up the difference. First with elevated cortisol and then adrenaline.

The TB4 was for it's neuroregenerative and anti-inflammatory properties. It's a rare injury outside the army.

[eon]

Interesting but you have sources? How does one injure their pituitary exactly? Which 2 do you you lose? I'm sorry not sure what you're saying.

 

Is TB4 thymosin beta-4? So I can do more research on it. If it is the latter, I've seen peptides sold under than name, not sure what it does exactly but upon quick look it helps with hair growth and has been used in sports for doping.

 

With an injured pituitary you lose the first two. Your HPA tries to make up the difference. First with elevated cortisol and then adrenaline.

The TB4 was for it's neuroregenerative and anti-inflammatory properties. It's a rare injury outside the army.

 

[jenifer445]

I think it is very possible. I think what it all comes down to is what you get your mind convinced of. Studies have shown that once you convince yourself of something for example telling yourself you can make 20 baskets in a row standing at half court, the chances of it happening increase sometimes by 90%. So I believe if your convinced that you almost have no fear, then most likely you don't.

 

[eon]

So it's more about suggestibility then? I'm reading a book it called The Power of Your Subconscious Mind which has a chapter on the power of suggestibility. Interesting, but I know it'll take time to figure it out. 

 

But as far as taking something to not have any fears, I was looking into several drugs, a few came up and another interesting fact was that the Japanese and the Germans during the World Ward used amphetamines to make them lack fear and have bravery and get things done.

Edited by eon, 01 February 2015 - 05:49 PM.

[Strangelove]

Interesting thread...

 

I am not the salesman kind of person and I am going to need to see a few hundred people (literally) trying to sale supplements in drugstores and start a company. I am quite serious about it, any ideas in anything that would put me in the right mood about this? I know about many antianxiety drugs, but what I think I have to do is to tune down my right amygdala, I pretty much think its the most useless part of the brain as many posters before described in evolutionary terms. I am interested in trying something that would keep me clear minded, not interfering with other parts of the brain like benzos, phenibut e.t,c.

 

Neuropeptide S, sounds like a good candidate, unfortunately there are no many reports.

[eon]

other than neuropeptide S, what are some others you can think of?

[eon]

Would something like below work for something you are describing?

 

Activation of TrkB by 7,8-dihydroxyflavone prevents fear memory defects and facilitates amygdalar synaptic plasticity in aging.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22710915

 

I found this company to be selling it in capsule form:

 

http://www.primordia..._7c799932980305

 

I think a few bulk powder supplier sells them as well.

 

 

Interesting thread...

 

I am not the salesman kind of person and I am going to need to see a few hundred people (literally) trying to sale supplements in drugstores and start a company. I am quite serious about it, any ideas in anything that would put me in the right mood about this? I know about many antianxiety drugs, but what I think I have to do is to tune down my right amygdala, I pretty much think its the most useless part of the brain as many posters before described in evolutionary terms. I am interested in trying something that would keep me clear minded, not interfering with other parts of the brain like benzos, phenibut e.t,c.

 

Neuropeptide S, sounds like a good candidate, unfortunately there are no many reports.

 

[Strangelove]

 

Would something like below work for something you are describing?

 

Activation of TrkB by 7,8-dihydroxyflavone prevents fear memory defects and facilitates amygdalar synaptic plasticity in aging.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22710915

 

I found this company to be selling it in capsule form:

 

http://www.primordia..._7c799932980305

 

I think a few bulk powder supplier sells them as well.

 

 

Interesting thread...

 

I am not the salesman kind of person and I am going to need to see a few hundred people (literally) trying to sale supplements in drugstores and start a company. I am quite serious about it, any ideas in anything that would put me in the right mood about this? I know about many antianxiety drugs, but what I think I have to do is to tune down my right amygdala, I pretty much think its the most useless part of the brain as many posters before described in evolutionary terms. I am interested in trying something that would keep me clear minded, not interfering with other parts of the brain like benzos, phenibut e.t,c.

 

Neuropeptide S, sounds like a good candidate, unfortunately there are no many reports.

 

 

Interesting find, but I cannot really tell what the subjective feeling would be in a human, but in any case thanks, I am going to look into experiences in the 7,8 dihydroxyflavone thread.

 

There is a component in the "big five personality traits" called neuroticism being the tendency to experience negative emotions that strongly correlates with right amygdala activation, I was reading a book that would give the functional dynamics of each trait and only neuroticism (and lack of emotional stability that involves) seemed a bad personality trait to have in the modern world. Turning down the volume in the right amygdala, would bring the brain into a new more functional balance to the majority of people I believe. If you put your seat belt, eat healthy, not doing overly dangerous sports, no illegal activities (and jail time) and a good sense managing your income you do not really need most of the negative emotions that we experience from time to time. I cannot say I experience many negative emotions, but still I experience procrastination that is stress related.

[eon]

The info. I posted mentioned something about the amygdala. There seem to be a lot of users who love the 7,8DHF product on reddit and on this forum. Does this turn off the right amygdala or turn it on some more? I do procrastinate, does the amygdala have anything to do with this? I thought "drive" has something to do with dopamine? I have some negative emotions that comes with living in the inner city and I think this is instinctual. It's necessary to have these negative emotions if you live in the city. I just wish I didn't have them because I think these negative emotions are part of what adds up to the stress already.

 

7,8DHF is listed as a neuroprotective agent:

 

http://en.wikipedia....otective_agents

Edited by eon, 26 February 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[Strangelove]

Yes, amygdala activation can be a major problem in procrastinating. If we consciously observe why we do not follow through in something that we consciously want to finish, we would notice in many cases, a slight anxiety response, like there is some kind of danger in the situetion.

 

The gist can be found on this book, although its for a little more serious issues.

 

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0813546400

 

Edit: A part of a review although is not the best explanation of what happens, in any case the right amygdala is the part of the brain that puts a brake through negative emotions (felt or even unconsciously). This below happens many times a day to everyone, I believe most of the time unecessarily in the modern world. 

 

Tim's three step practice begins with a focus on the body and the activation of what he calls "an amygdala script." This concept is key for the practice, and Tim explains it fully in the introduction and in the first two chapters.

Very briefly, the amygdala is a small almond-shaped part of the brain that belongs to the limbic system, the part of the brain that we share with reptiles. It records memories of painful events, but only in bare outline, not with historical details. Often called emotion memories, Tim refers to the activation of these memories, or "seed images," as an amygdala script, because the script programs our behavior without our conscious awareness.

To explain a little further, one of the amygdala's major purposes is to alert us to any situation that bears a resemblance to the seed image and to activate the flight, fight, or freeze response without delay. It bypasses our more analytical processes in order to protect us. We are glad we have amygdala scripts in case that flash of orange is a tiger about to pounce. But, the amygdala will also hijack our capacity for higher reasoning even when we are safe. We might, for example, think "Tiger," feel fear, and flee when, in fact, the flash of orange is really Aunt Martha's sundress.

Tim has identified three components of amygdala scripts: a felt experience, that is, a reaction felt in the body; the use of a seed situation as a template laid on the current situation; and, beliefs about oneself and/or others...

Edited by Strangelove, 26 February 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[eon]

seems like an interesting book but I would think an actual chemical compound would be needed to shut down the amgydala, having it "removed" seem impractical. So is the compound I mentioned above 7,8DHF seem like a good candidate?

 

From what I understand these brain regions all work "together" so if shutting one down, I wonder what would happen?

 

"Recent research suggests that parasites, in particular toxoplasma, form cysts in the brain of rats, often taking up residence in the amygdala. This may provide clues as to how specific parasites may contribute to the development of disorders, including paranoia.^{[49]" Wiki on Amygdala}

 

^{I was a former cat lover by the way. The other threads I participated on involve topics like Toxoplasmosis and Lyme disease.}

 

"Structure–activity relationship study shows that the catechol group in 7,8-dihdyroxyflavone, a selective small TrkB receptor agonist, is critical for agonistic activity. To improve the poor pharmacokinetic profiles intrinsic to catechol-containing molecules and to elevate the agonistic effect of the lead compound, we initiated the lead optimization campaign by synthesizing various bioisosteric derivatives. Here we show that the optimized 2-methyl-8-(4′-(pyrrolidin-1-yl)phenyl)chromeno[7,8-d]imidazol-6(1H)-one derivative possesses enhanced TrkB stimulatory activity. Chronic oral administration of this compound significantly reduces the immobility in forced swim test and tail suspension test, two classical antidepressant behavioral animal models, which is accompanied by robust TrkB activation in hippocampus of mouse brain. Further, in vitro ADMET studies demonstrate that this compound possesses the improved features compared to the previous lead compound. Hence, this optimized compound may act as a promising lead candidate for in-depth drug development for treating various neurological disorders including depression."

 

http://pubs.acs.org/....1021/jm301099x

Edited by eon, 27 February 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[Strangelove]

 

So is the compound I mentioned above 7,8DHF seem like a good candidate?

 

 

According to reports not really.

 

 

From what I understand these brain regions all work "together" so if shutting one down, I wonder what would happen?

 

 

As I said in a previous post the brain would come in a new balance. What I meant with this is that turning the volume of negative emotions down, you would allow increased activation to every other brain part that is connected to the amygdala giving a more stable system, and more functional to the degree the negative emotions do not corespond to any real treat. You would probably get a little more extroverted, more decisive, more action oriented. If you turn down the volume of negative emotions you would not get any kind of weird malfunction in information processing if thats what you mean, you will just be one of these stable personalities that seem collected and fearless. Most of the very succesful people are people low in neuroticism that is in part amygdala connected.

 

Looking around the best drug I could suggest right now is this. Maybe could arrange a group buy, the person that started the thread could help giving us some information for the synthesis.

http://www.reddit.co...never_heard_of/

[eon]

If that's nothing more than a glorified MAOI, I would think Selegiline would be the better choice.

 

Or look at this profile on Lysine:

 

Lysine has a anxiolytic action through its effects on serotonin receptors in the intestinal tract, and is also hypothesized to reduce anxiety through serotonin regulation in the amygdala.^[40] One study on rats^[41] showed that overstimulation of the 5-HT4 receptors in the gut are associated with anxiety-induced intestinal pathology. Lysine, acting as a serotonin antagonist and therefore reducing the overactivity of these receptors, reduced signs of anxiety and anxiety-induced diarrhea in the sample population. Another study showed that lysine deficiency leads to a pathological increase in serotonin in the amygdala, a brain structure that is involved in emotional regulation and the stress response.^[40]Human studies have also shown correlations between reduced lysine intake and anxiety. A population-based study in Syria included 93 families whose diet is primarily grain-based and therefore likely to be deficient in lysine. Fortification of grains with lysine was shown to reduce markers of anxiety, including cortisol levels; Smiriga and colleagues hypothesized that anxiety reduction from lysine occurs through mechanism of serotonin alterations in the central amygdala; older primary research reports hypothesized lysine to reduce anxiety through the potentiation of benzodiazepine receptors (common targets of anxiolytic drugs such as Xanax and Ativan).^[42] (Note that all of these studies were funded by Ajinomoto, Co. Inc., an industrial manufacturer of lysine.)

 

Wiki

 

Lysine came to my attention because the ADHD drug called Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) is simply L-Lysine attached to a dextroamphetamine so I was curious if Lysine has benefits on its own without the amphetamine. Maybe it does according to the info. above.

Edited by eon, 08 March 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[Strangelove]

If that's nothing more than a glorified MAOI, I would think Selegiline would be the better choice.

 

Or look at this profile on Lysine:

 

Lysine has a anxiolytic action through its effects on serotonin receptors in the intestinal tract, and is also hypothesized to reduce anxiety through serotonin regulation in the amygdala.^[40] One study on rats^[41] showed that overstimulation of the 5-HT4 receptors in the gut are associated with anxiety-induced intestinal pathology. Lysine, acting as a serotonin antagonist and therefore reducing the overactivity of these receptors, reduced signs of anxiety and anxiety-induced diarrhea in the sample population. Another study showed that lysine deficiency leads to a pathological increase in serotonin in the amygdala, a brain structure that is involved in emotional regulation and the stress response.^[40]Human studies have also shown correlations between reduced lysine intake and anxiety. A population-based study in Syria included 93 families whose diet is primarily grain-based and therefore likely to be deficient in lysine. Fortification of grains with lysine was shown to reduce markers of anxiety, including cortisol levels; Smiriga and colleagues hypothesized that anxiety reduction from lysine occurs through mechanism of serotonin alterations in the central amygdala; older primary research reports hypothesized lysine to reduce anxiety through the potentiation of benzodiazepine receptors (common targets of anxiolytic drugs such as Xanax and Ativan).^[42] (Note that all of these studies were funded by Ajinomoto, Co. Inc., an industrial manufacturer of lysine.)

 

Wiki

 

Lysine came to my attention because the ADHD drug called Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) is simply L-Lysine attached to a dextroamphetamine so I was curious if Lysine has benefits on its own without the amphetamine. Maybe it does according to the info. above.

 

Interesting, they sell L-Lysine in Amazon and its pretty cheap too. Lysine its an amino acid, and it seems that even if you get a decent amount from food you can still benefit supplementing some extra Lysine. Except from the research there are anecdotal evidence also that is helpful, especially in combination with arginine.

 

Please check the thread I linked again, Its not a MAOI its a gaba-t inhibitor. Nardil a "strong MAOI" has legendary reputation for anxiety disorders (xanax thats pretty effective does not compare) there people who would not leave their house having social and generalized anxiety that would turn into social butterflies after taking Nardil. The main reason for the effectivness of Nardil is that metabolizes into Phenylethylidenehydrazine.

 

 

[eon]

I did check the link you posted. Also, there are some talk out there about Arginine being linked with schizophrenia (?) or some other mental disorder. I've tried it in grams per day. I've heard of such thing as 20g per day or 5 g pre workout and post workout. I had to dump 1 kilo of arginine powders after I read of its link with schizophrenia or some other mental disorders. I think L-lysine is more promising.

 

If Nardil turns into PEH, why not take Nardil instead of going through hassle of waiting for PEH? The way you described Nardil seems as if Selegiline does a better job with more benefits added such as less sides (if any), plus no "cheese effect" common with MAOIs.

 

I still think 7,8-DHF is still interesting when it comes to "amygdala", plus the L-lysine I just mentioned above. It's no wonder why it's paired with dextroamphetamine to create Vyvanse. I talked to people on Vynanse and they said it's very smooth.

 

Btw pureformulas.com has some great prices, sometimes even better than amazon, plus free shipping and free samples too. Not sure how much shipping is to Europe.

Edited by eon, 08 March 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[Strangelove]

Eon, the usual doses for Lysine and arginine to have an effect is around 1.5 gram each, that its nothing to worry about arginine at that dosage, although I agree that the main reason for the positives some people report from this combo is probably from Lysine.

 

I have tried all the pharmaceutical MAOIs including phenelzine and has many side effects, reading about its chemical profile I believe Phenylethylidenehydrazine would have very few side effects if any. Selegiline does not compare at all with stronger MAOIs like Nardil or Parnate. 

 

A different approach to fear is fear extinction / post from reddit. I have read many articles in the past that D-cycloserine is helpful with fear extinction also but we should find something even better.

 

 I would say that anxiety is a emotional state determined by our neurochemical makeup at a given moment. Fear on the other hand is a conditioned response formed through association between a conditioned stimulus and a punisher. Certain contextual criteria elicit a fear response that is intended to help that organism avoid a punishment.

Anxiety is a symptom that can be alleviated through neuro-chemical manipulation. Fear on the other hand is a programmed response that must be abolished through the process of extinction.

In the process of extinction an organism is exposed to the fear eliciting stimulus WITHOUT the concurrent administration of the punishing stimulus. Repeated exposures cause the organism to learn that the fear stimulus no longer signals oncoming danger and thus the fear response is extinguished.

Certain nootropics that alleviate anxiety can actually INHIBIT extinction learning by reducing the fear response during extinction learning. Beta-blockers for example can cut out the physical symptoms of a fear response, however, it does so at the expense of inhibiting fear extinction.

Remember, one of the factors that determines the strength of our memory formation is the intensity of one’s emotion during learning. In essence if one reduces the intensity of their anxiety during extinction training they will not learn to not be afraid as efficiently.

A couple supplements that I’ve been researching recently can be stacked together to increase the rate of extinction learning as well AND increase the retention of extinction memories. These two supplements are Yohimbe and Magnesium L-Theronate.

Yohimbe can help facilitate fear extinction by raising NE levels and in turn INTENSIFYING one’s neurochemical response to fear stimuli. Numerous studies have demonstrated that administration of yohimbe during extinction training can reduce the number of trials till extinction is achieved.

Magnesium L-Theronate on the other hand can work acutely as a mild anxiolytic by raising brain magnesium levels and antagonizing NMDA receptors. It’s voltage NMDA antagonism can ENHANCE NMDA function by preventing calcium leakage and thus increasing signal to noise ratio. Furthermore Magnesium L-theronate raises neural concentrations of Magnesium differentially across different brain regions. Of particular interest is the fact that it raises Mg levels in the Infralimbic-PFC, and hippocampus, two areas involved in the learning of fear extinction and preservation of extinction memories, without affecting the amygdala which is responsible for conditioned fear expression.

If you want to truly eliminate fear, your brain MUST learn that the object of your fear should no longer be associated with danger. The supplements above can help with that process, but to eliminate fear takes exposure to the object of your fear. Anxiety is a symptom that can be alleviated through neuro-chemical manipulation. Fear on the other hand is a programmed response that must be abolished through the process of extinction.

 

 

 

[eon]

Anxiety

 

"The neurocircuitry of fear appears to focus on the amygdala. The amygdala receives noradrenergic innervation from the locus coeruleus and serotonergic projections from the midbrain raphe nuclei. High levels of amygdala activation are associated with an increased prevalence of anxiety symptoms and dispositional negative affect. Electrical stimulation of the amygdala can evoke emotional experiences, especially fear and anxiety, and vivid recall of emotional life events."

 

http://en.wikipedia....ptake_inhibitor

 

I found this info. on that page. If there would be such a thing as an amygdala-ergic drugs, would it be a SNDRI then or should it belong to another "new" class of drugs? So far I could only think of a few amygdala-ergics we talked about (L-lysine, 7,8-DHF).

Edited by eon, 10 March 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[Strangelove]

Unfortunatelly should be a "new class" of drugs targeting specific structures in amygdala (with logic similar to NSI) even the right amygdala that is related to the bulk majority of negative emotions has positive aspects, and vice versa for the left amygdala. This is why I am not so positive and looking to some safe and effective gabaergics that have direct influence on the amygdala stress/fear response. I have not search it much though... And what you found with l-lysine its pretty interesting... I am going to get some next time I ll place an order for supplements.

 

I was wrong before for the amounted tested to have an effect on stress.

 

Oral treatment with L-lysine and L-arginine reduces anxiety and basal cortisol levels in healthy humans.

Smriga M1, Ando T, Akutsu M, Furukawa Y, Miwa K, Morinaga Y.

Author information

 

Abstract

Dietary supplementation with an essential amino acid L-lysine has been shown to reduce chronic anxiety in humans with low dietary intake of L-lysine. A combination of L-lysine and L-arginine has been documented to normalize hormonal stress responses in humans with high trait anxiety. The present study was carried out in one hundred eight healthy Japanese adults. The aim of study was to find out whether a week-long oral treatment with L-lysine (2.64 g per day) and L-arginine (2.64 g per day) reduces trait and stress-induced state anxiety and basal levels of stress hormones. We confirmed that, without regard to gender, the amino acid treatment significantly reduced both trait anxiety and state anxiety induced by cognitive stress battery. In addition, we found that the treatment with L-lysine and L-arginine decreased the basal levels of salivary cortisol and chromogranin-A (a salivary marker of the sympatho-adrenal system) in male subjects. These results of this double-blind, placebo controlled and randomized study confirm the previous findings in humans and animals and point to a combination of L-lysine and L-arginine as a potentially useful dietary intervention in otherwise healthy humans with high subjective levels of mental stress and anxiety.