215 replies to this topic

[TheBatman]

Well with regard to the tiger reference, fear was very useful in prehistoric times. if you weren't afraid when a mammoth was going to eat you, you died. Your genes were wiped out and only those who were fearful lived. Their genes were passed on.  Lets pretend I said an artic saber toothed tiger.

 

The same fear is present whenever we do a presentation, go out on a date, or do an interview. But its a redundant, useless fear. Our brains actually think that we are in a life-threatening situation, that we are faced with a tiger, its what evolution has wired us to think. Fear is useful when we want to run, for example If I'm a teenager and I throw an egg at a house and the cops arrive, it's good that I'm afraid so I can peg it. But its only really good in terms of knowing when to run away. To be honest, I havn't been in that many life-threatening situations, and a tiger hasn't chased me in a while. I've had to deal with interviews, dates and presentations much more regularly, where I could have done with a good dose of fearlessness.

 

Of course fear may be useful in certain situations. But its too prevalent. Ask Muhammad Ali would he rather have been safe and lived in fear as opposed to being fearless. Better to die brave than live a coward.  

 

On that note take the gram of phenibut. Taking it in 100mg increments is pointless, you simply won't make any progress doing things that slowly. Unless you have serious medical conditions just do it, I can't really see a worse case scenario, you don't really react well,  you have a bad day, then you stop taking it and are much the wiser for it and can move on to try a gram of the next substance that may work for you. 

 

Fortune favours the brave:)

 

Being afraid isn't just useful for running away and it is just as needed now as it has always been. On any given day we could die from a car crash, gun shot, choking ect. 

 

Fear is a form of intelligence that not only keeps you alive, but keeps you from doing things that will hurt your quality of life. Fearing certain mundane things can be helpful because it motivates you to succeed. Fearing a job interview might seem unnecessary, but having an income has the potential to make you more happy than you would be living on the street. 

 

But obviously too much fear is bad thing.

 

Eon - IMO experience is what defeats fear. Also money. Lots of it.

[Strangelove]

 

Well with regard to the tiger reference, fear was very useful in prehistoric times. if you weren't afraid when a mammoth was going to eat you, you died. Your genes were wiped out and only those who were fearful lived. Their genes were passed on.  Lets pretend I said an artic saber toothed tiger.

 

The same fear is present whenever we do a presentation, go out on a date, or do an interview. But its a redundant, useless fear. Our brains actually think that we are in a life-threatening situation, that we are faced with a tiger, its what evolution has wired us to think. Fear is useful when we want to run, for example If I'm a teenager and I throw an egg at a house and the cops arrive, it's good that I'm afraid so I can peg it. But its only really good in terms of knowing when to run away. To be honest, I havn't been in that many life-threatening situations, and a tiger hasn't chased me in a while. I've had to deal with interviews, dates and presentations much more regularly, where I could have done with a good dose of fearlessness.

 

Of course fear may be useful in certain situations. But its too prevalent. Ask Muhammad Ali would he rather have been safe and lived in fear as opposed to being fearless. Better to die brave than live a coward.  

 

On that note take the gram of phenibut. Taking it in 100mg increments is pointless, you simply won't make any progress doing things that slowly. Unless you have serious medical conditions just do it, I can't really see a worse case scenario, you don't really react well,  you have a bad day, then you stop taking it and are much the wiser for it and can move on to try a gram of the next substance that may work for you. 

 

Fortune favours the brave:)

 

Being afraid isn't just useful for running away and it is just as needed now as it has always been. On any given day we could die from a car crash, gun shot, choking ect. 

 

Fear is a form of intelligence that not only keeps you alive, but keeps you from doing things that will hurt your quality of life. Fearing certain mundane things can be helpful because it motivates you to succeed. Fearing a job interview might seem unnecessary, but having an income has the potential to make you more happy than you would be living on the street. 

 

But obviously too much fear is bad thing.

 

Eon - IMO experience is what defeats fear. Also money. Lots of it.

 

 

Respectfully disagree, fear/anxiety is calibrated way higher in the human brain than is needed in modern times. I think we need more rationality to succeed in the modern world, no negative emotions. I think very succesful businessmen and politicians succeed in part having a cool/resilient disposition to start with. Many more personality characteristics are needed of course.

[Strangelove]

Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.

 

http://www.longecity...d-them-helpful/

[stolpioni]

True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.

A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.

[eon]

I already know fear, so how do I become a sociopath? 

 

A sociopath is defined as:

 

a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

 

But the thing is I think if you know fear already, you would have a conscience, you just want it gone since it's not exactly needed. It would be a different story if one is simply born without fear then that person would be completely inconsiderate and narcissistic. 

 

Now a psychopath is defined as:

 

a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

I already have experience with FEAR therefore I'm familiar with it, the whole thread is about how do you banish all fears, now that I know what it's all about.

 

Edited by eon, 20 March 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[eon]

so sociopaths/psychopaths may have a defect in their amygdala then? Possibly.

 

True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.

A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.

 

[eon]

that thread seem to have died off but some interesting chemicals and 7,8-DHF was also mentioned. But what do you think of this one:

 

Anxiety[edit]

Another psychiatric use of guanfacine is for treatment of anxiety, such as generalized anxiety disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms. Guanfacine and other α_2Aagonists reduce sympathetic arousal in the emotional responses of the amygdala, and strengthen prefrontal cortical regulation of emotion, action and thought. Due to its prolonged half-life, it also has been seen to improve sleep interrupted by nightmares in PTSD patients.^[21] All of these actions likely contribute to the relief of the hyperarousal, re-experiencing of memory, and impulsivity associated with PTSD.^[22] However, a recent study showed no benefit for patients suffering from PTSD.^[23]

^{http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Guanfacine}

 

Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.

 

http://www.longecity...d-them-helpful/

 

[stolpioni]

 

so sociopaths/psychopaths may have a defect in their amygdala then? Possibly.

 

True sociopaths do not feel any fear. In any situation. But this is also usually what gets them into trouble.

A little bit of fear is good, in certain situations.

 

 

I don't exactly know. This book is interesting:

 

http://www.amazon.co...ords=psychopath

 

In it Kevin Dutton (the author) injected himself with a substance that essentially made him a psychopath for 30 or so minutes. Then he described what it felt like.

 

Here's an old thread about this:

 

http://www.longecity...g-a-psychopath/

[vannessa.wells2]

It is unlikely, but definitely possible. There are certain types of medications for it, and brain injuries may cause no fear as well.

Edited by vannessa.wells2, 04 April 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[eon]

I'm having second thoughts on Lysine use. Not sure if it's what causing my fast heartbeat and I just feel weird on it. I feel a bit too relaxed and sedated but the fast heartbeat comes around from time to time. Last night I felt something unusual it woke me up from my sleep. My head felt as if "full" (think when you're mad, there's an expression "my head is about to explode"). I remember this feeling when I had serotonin syndrome. I haven't read up on Lysine causing it though. I know the other "essential amino acid" Tryptophan can cause the syndrome, plus it can be bad for the heart as well since it turns into 5htp (if I'm not mistaken). I'll be doing more research here but if anyone know what's up with Lysine let us all know. 

 

I did feel tingling, not sure if that is relavant. Not sure if the combo of other supplements would interact with Lysine. Not sure if Saffron tea would have any issues, I just started drinking that. But I think Lysine is the culprit here because it works on the serotonin (it's a serotonin antagonist). I'm not sure if it increases or decreases it, I'd have to look again. For now I'll stop taking it and see how I feel. It was too relaxing but not sure what's causing fast heartbeats and that weird feeling I was slowly feeling throughout the time I was taking it. I wasn't productive or motivated, just relaxed whereas with dopaminergics I was relaxed and productive. Maybe I'm not a serotoninergic type of person (meaning I don't need anything for the serotonin and could use less of it?). I do well on dopaminergics like Kava.

 

Maybe supplemental "essential amino acids" isn't so essential to some people? By the way my dose of L-Lysine was 500mg 3x daily.

 

Update: Found some negatives of Lysine supplementation:

 

http://www.med-healt...t/L-Lysine.html

 

https://umm.edu/heal...pplement/lysine

 

I have Mitral Valve Prolapse so lysine was said to be forbidden. Also one source mentioned it can affect the liver. I did notice a slight pain in my liver area even Kava wasn't doing that to me but lysine does.

 

Edited by eon, 13 April 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[eon]

your anxiety just might be a sign of high intelligence

 

http://www.businessi...ve-trait-2015-4

 

Here's a summary of a great article I just read:

 

"If you worry a lot, fear not — your anxiety just might be a sign of high intelligence. The idea has been around for a while: The adage that ignorance is bliss suggests the reverse, that knowledge involves anguish. Now it’s starting to get some scientific validation.

 

The idea that worriers are cannier than average may just seem to make sense — a worried mind is a searching mind, and smarter people may have the cognitive agility to examine multiple angles of any situation, for better or worse. And as Penney and his colleagues wrote in their study, “It is possible that more verbally intelligent individuals are able to consider past and future events in greater detail, leading to more intense rumination and worry.”

 

Some contradictions below?

 

"According to Robert Epstein, a psychologist at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology, the smarter you are, the more chilled you are. “There are exceptions, obviously, but the basic finding is sound. One explanation for the negative correlation is pretty straightforward: When people are anxious, they don't think very clearly,” Epstein told me."

 

I would think a full blown panic or anxiety "attack" is when one can't think clearly but just general worry should be fine?

 

"Still, the suspicion persists that a tendency to be twitchy just might bequeath a mental advantage. Many brilliant thinkers suffered from anxiety, including Nikola Tesla, Charles Darwin, and Kurt Gödel."

 

"Despite his magisterial image, Abraham Lincoln was high-strung; he described himself as “naturally of a nervous temperament.”

 

"Edvard Munch’s masterpiece The Scream came to him during a panic attack that played out as a vision of a blood-red sky. “I stood there trembling with anxiety—and I sensed an endless scream passing through nature,” Munch is quoted saying."

 

"Whatever your level of creativity, if you are dogged by dread, the trait may mean you are more likely to avoid danger. Better anxious and animate than brash and dead."

 

"Nobody is making a case for raging paranoia, but at a pinch, above-average unease just might be something to brag about. Whatever else, it means reduced risk of falling prey to overconfidence."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eon]

Here's another interesting drug:

 

Volunteers given the beta blocker propranolol scored lower on a range of psychological tests designed to reveal any racist attitudes than a group who took a placebo.^[29] The amygdala is involved in processing emotion, including fear, and many psychologists think racist feelings are driven by the fear center. Propranolol inhibits the amygdala.^[30]

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Propranolol

 

This drug was profiled in the Smart Drugs book series that I read and was one of my ideal drugs/nootropics. I have it but have not tried it yet.

 

Not exactly the subject of discussion that we have here, but this is a good thread with some novel chemicals.

 

http://www.longecity...d-them-helpful/

 

Edited by eon, 23 April 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[Strangelove]

I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.

[eon]

not even if it inhibits the amygdala?

 

I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.

 

[Strangelove]

Its good that you search in pubmed as you might find something novel, but then if online experiences exist, its not always what we are looking for in practical use.

 

I have tried propranolol in small doses, I do not have issues with physical manifestations of anxiety, but can help with tremor in performing arts, sweating, and some politicians use it in public speaking, but its effects are peripheral and you will not feel chilled like a benzo. I was only using benzos in the army and everyone thought I was weird in a good way. No issues with anxiety or fear whatever, I also got used to the slight hypnotic effect, I was getting in the beginning.

 

It was good, I personaly did not get any withdrawal or rebound anxiety, but I would not recommend due to the "horror" stories others have reported on line.

 

The best option I could think right now is the Gaba T inhibitor, Phenylethylidenehydrazine, Ceretropic might have it for sale in the future, after a recent failed atempt to synthesize it.

 

Edit:

 

Rosmarinic acid is a Gaba T inhibitor also, I just placed an order for it.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item46388fd7b5

 

Also found this.

 

Phytomedicine. 2010 May;17(6):397-403. doi: 10.1016/j.phymed.2010.01.012. Epub 2010 Feb 18.

Effects of chronic administration of Melissa officinalis L. extract on anxiety-like reactivity and on circadian and exploratory activities in mice.

Ibarra A1, Feuillere N, Roller M, Lesburgere E, Beracochea D.

Author information

 

Abstract

This study aimed to determine the effects of chronic (15 consecutive days of treatment) per os administration of Melissa officinalis L. extract (Cyracos, Naturex) on anxiety-like reactivity in mice. As measured by HPLC, Cyracos contains significant amounts of rosmarinic acid and the triterpenoids oleanolic acid and ursolic acid, which inhibit gamma-aminobutyric acid transaminase (GABA-T) activity and increase GABA levels in the brain (Awad et al., 2007; Awad et al., 2009). Thus, we evaluated Cyracos use in independent groups of C57BL/6 mice with regard to anxiety-like reactivity in an elevated plus maze and an open field task. We found that Cyracos significantly reduced anxiety-like reactivity in the elevated plus maze dose-dependently, but no significant effect was observed in the open field task. Parallel experiments in independent groups of mice showed that the Cyracosdose at which it exerted anxiolytic-like effects in the elevated plus maze did not alter exploratory or circadian activities. Therefore, our results demonstrate that Cyracos has anxiolytic-like effects under moderate stress conditions and does not alter activity levels.

Copyright 2010 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.

PMID:   20171069   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Edited by Strangelove, 24 April 2015 - 02:15 PM.

[eon]

Interesting because I have used Melissa and Rosemary supplements before but not at present moment. I don't want to mix a whole bunch of herbals and meds at the same time. The product you ordered on Ebay is rosmarinic acid from Sage? I had no idea Sage would have such thing. All I can say, upon drinking Sage tea, I felt it's all I really needed and the rest aren't important. It was effective.

 

I'll look more into Gaba T inhibitors, I had looked mainly in to Gaba a. The products mentioned on the abstract regarding Melissa extract are Cyracos and Naturex, both I have never tried. I bet they are stronger.

[Strangelove]

Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.

[eon]

I assumed Rosemary would be the ultimate source due to its name alone "rosmarinic acid".

 

 

Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.

 

[Strangelove]

 

I assumed Rosemary would be the ultimate source due to its name alone "rosmarinic acid".

 

 

Looking around for rosmaniric acid it seems you can find it in a number of herbs. Yes you are right, probably they are stronger, but I found them after I placed the order in ebay.

 

 

From what I remember is present in rosemary, lemon balm and sage. I was surprised that the sage extract pills that I bought from ebay were effective, I "only" used 3 times the recommended dosage (a few times now) and had a strong anxyolitic effect without sedation, I am impressed...

[eon]

Strangelove, how did you like the lysine? How much were you taking? I had to stop because I'm currently on an amphetamine called Vyvanse (which has lysine). Remember it's how I discovered the effects of lysine by reading the profile of Vyvanse and the lysine attached to it.

 

Lysine was definitely anxiolytic, but its profile regarding its actions on the amygdala is still mixed to me. I wish it could vanish all fears. There was an article I read recently about how reading bad news may even cause PTSD in some people. I don't have the link for it but it's interesting that somehow what was read is stored in the memory and if it's written in a fear-mongering way the way bad news is usually sensationalized, that fear tactic in the news media grabs you and the fear of fear turns into a loop.

Edited by eon, 20 May 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Strangelove]

Strangelove, how did you like the lysine? How much were you taking? I had to stop because I'm currently on an amphetamine called Vyvanse (which has lysine). Remember it's how I discovered the effects of lysine by reading the profile of Vyvanse and the lysine attached to it.

 

Lysine was definitely anxiolytic, but its profile regarding its actions on the amygdala is still mixed to me. I wish it could vanish all fears. There was an article I read recently about how reading bad news may even cause PTSD in some people. I don't have the link for it but it's interesting that somehow what was read is stored in the memory and if it's written in a fear-mongering way the way bad news is usually sensationalized, that fear tactic in the news media grabs you and the fear of fear turns into a loop.

 

I did not have an immediate strong response with Lysine, this is why I discontinuate it, but I am reading it may need a while to see results. I ll try again in the future.

 

What you describe about fear and past stored memory is superbly explained (with "psychological exercises") in the book I linked before.

 

http://www.amazon.co...dala psychology

[eon]

Seems like an interesting book but I don't get how reading it could manipulate the amygdala. Perhaps if something can be learned it can be unlearned is what the book's topic is? I'd prefer "actions" (drugs that work/drugs that have actions) rather than "words" (simply reading something may not do much since they're just words). If you've read the book Strangelove, do you have a summary of it?

[eon]

you don't think propranolol inhibiting the amygdala is good enough?

 

Now regarding the 7,8-DHF, seems like it has potential but like you said not much studies on it. A few people have said (assuming) it may induce negative memories but I think it has a paradoxical effect meaning if one has day to day anxiety due to bad memories it can block it while others who have had bad experiences but do not have their experiences "activated" on a day to day basis (but rather suppressed), it may be activated when using 7,8-DHF.

 

I believe certain drugs has a paradoxical effect, amphetamine comes to mind. I'm surprised it makes me so calm when I was expecting this to make me jittery. In other words, I needed it? If I didn't then I would think I'd be hyper-active. Then again, I'm only on low dose Vyvanse (20 mg).

 

I am not sure propranolol is what we are looking for, it can help in physical symptoms of anxiety though, there are many experiences online if you search propranolol and anxiety.

 

Edited by eon, 25 May 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[Strangelove]

Yes, according to a large number of experiences on line (all of them) describe benefits in only greatly reducing the bodily effects of panic (fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor).

 

You might get new ideas from this thread

http://www.longecity...at-wont-sedate/

 

I am going to try afobazol next.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21861391

 

http://rupharma.com/products/afobazol

 

Also available in ebay for an even better price.

[Heisenburger]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I tried afobazole for a couple of months and its effects were minimal at best. A stiff shot of Jack Daniels would likely have better effects. I have crippling, debilitating, pee-in-your-pants stage fright. Ten milligrams of propranolol and half a milligram of Xanax turns it off completely like flipping a light switch. I’m constantly getting compliments on my public speaking skills.

[Strangelove]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I tried afobazole for a couple of months and its effects were minimal at best. A stiff shot of Jack Daniels would likely have better effects. I have crippling, debilitating, pee-in-your-pants stage fright. Ten milligrams of propranolol and half a milligram of Xanax turns it off completely like flipping a light switch. I’m constantly getting compliments on my public speaking skills.

 

Yea, I agree about the combination of propranolol and xanax, I am getting stage fright myself, I only felt the benefits that propranolol could give (in its absence) when I had to hold a piece of paper I was reading from, in a somewhat large audience, my hand was trembling as I was holding the paper in front of my face. I was feeling totally calm from the xanax and thought that is weird my hand is trembling, I am pretty sure the addition of propranolol would help in that instance. 

 

Other people might have larger issues with bodily manifestations of anxiety, I was looking the Nixon movie again yesterday and propranolol could possibly give Nixon a solution to his sweating issue.  

[sthira]

Hair loss may be a side effect of propranolol.

[A941]

OFFTOPIC: Just visited this thread again and realized that i wrote the same thing 2x in the same posting (which was possible because I always copy the whole thing in case something goes wrong, so I dont have to write it again) sorry for that.

[Heisenburger]

 

I was looking the Nixon movie again yesterday and propranolol could possibly give Nixon a solution to his sweating issue.  

 

 

Maybe, but it probably wouldn't have done anything to hide the lies coming out through his teeth.

[eon]

Psilocybin inhibits the processing of negative emotions in the brain

 

http://medicalxpress...brain.html#nRlv

 

"Psilocybin inhibits the processing of negative emotions in the amygdala"

 

While my anxiety has lessened ever since I took psilocybin, the thing that brings back the anxiety is the actual memory of the anxiety itself for me. Maybe I didn't take the psilocybin long enough or at a certain dose? I only took it about 2-3 times in my life, I believe about 2 years ago was the last time I took it.

 

Anxious children have bigger 'fear centers' in the brain

 

http://medicalxpress...brain.html#nRlv

 

"The amygdala is a key "fear center" in the brain. Alterations in the development of the amygdala during childhood may have an important influence on the development of anxiety problems, reports a new study in the current issue of Biological Psychiatry."

 

"The researchers found that children with high levels of anxiety had enlarged amygdala volume and increased connectivity with other brain regions responsible for attention, emotion perception, and regulation, compared to children with low levels of anxiety. They also developed an equation that reliably predicted the children's anxiety level from the MRI measurements of amygdala volume and amygdala functional connectivity."

 

"The most affected region was the basolateral portion of the amygdala, a subregion of the amygdala implicated in fear learning and the processing of emotion-related information."

 

Question is, what could shrink the "enlarged amygdala"? I had no clue it expands? I thought it was always as small as an almond?

 

Size, connectivity of brain region linked to anxiety level in young children

 

http://medicalxpress...xiety.html#nRlv

 

"Prolonged stress and anxiety during childhood is a risk factor for developing anxiety disorders and depression later in life. Now, Stanford University School of Medicine researchers have shown that by measuring the size and connectivity of a part of the brain associated with processing emotion—the amygdala—they can predict the degree of anxiety a young child is experiencing in daily life."

 

They found that the larger the amygdala and the stronger its connections with other parts of the brain involved in perception and regulation of emotion, the greater the amount of anxiety a child was experiencing.

 

The findings do not mean that a young child with an enlarged and highly connected amygdala will necessarily go on to develop a mood disorder, said Vinod Menon, PhD, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and senior author of the study, which will be published online Nov. 20 in Biological Psychiatry.

 

Anxiety is a common emotional reaction to stress. It normally helps us cope with difficult situations. But sustained anxiety can lead to disabling conditions such as phobia, post-traumatic stress disorder and generalized anxiety disorder.

 

The basolateral amygdala, a subregion important for processing emotion-related sensory information and communicating it to the neocortex—the evolutionarily newer part of the brain—is specifically where Shaozheng Qin, PhD, a postdoctoral scholar and lead author of the study, detected the enlargement."

 

Below is another interesting article:

 

Decreased gene activity is likely involved in childhood risk for anxiety and depression

 

http://medicalxpress...xiety.html#nRlv

 

In examining a specific part of the amygdala, the central nucleus, the researchers analyzed gene expression, which reflects both environmental and inherited influences. Within the central nucleus of the amygdala the authors found that anxious individuals tended to have decreased expression of a gene called neurotrophic tyrosine kinase, receptor, type 3 (NTRK3). Low levels of this gene that encodes for a brain cell surface receptor may be why the amygdala of an anxious monkey or child is chronically overactive and unable to overcome anxiety and fears.

 

"This is the first demonstration that the early risk to develop anxiety and depression may be related to the underactivity of particular genes in the developing primate amygdala,'' Kalin says. "These findings have provided the basis for our hypothesis that can explain the early childhood risk to develop anxiety and depression. It also suggests some creative ways to help children with extreme anxiety by developing new treatments focused on increasing the activity of specific genes involved in facilitating the brain development that underlies fear learning and coping."

 

So how do we increase our levels of NTRK3?

 

 

Edited by eon, 26 May 2015 - 12:44 PM.